Vic Fangio, Brian Daboll and a new approach to staff building

[Mr. Scot]

Dan Duggan of The Athletic wrote a recent article about the Giants staffing process after hiring Brian Daboll that raises some interesting points.

From the article...

Thomas McGaughey had been the Giants’ special teams coordinator since 2018, serving on the staffs of previous head coaches Pat Shurmur and Joe Judge. When Judge was fired after last season, there was no guarantee his successor would retain any assistants, so McGaughey had to explore other options.

He was offered the special teams coordinator jobs with the Chargers and Panthers and declined an interview request from the Bears, but said, “I wasn’t real fired up about (the other teams), to be honest with you because I wanted to stay here.”

McGaughey had no relationship with Daboll, who made an introductory phone call when he became a candidate for the Giants job. The night he was hired, Daboll called McGaughey. The interview lasted five minutes.

“He was like, ‘OK, you’re in front of the room, first time you meet the team: Go!,’” McGaughey said. “He stopped me halfway through and he was like, ‘Look, do you want to be here?’ I was like, ‘Yeah, I want to be here.’ It’s been great ever since.”

...

Daboll and Kafka had no history aside from six months together with the Patriots during the 2013 offseason. Kafka was a backup quarterback, and Daboll was returning as tight ends coach after a series of unsuccessful OC jobs away from New England. They worked together to learn and re-learn the Patriots’ offense.

Kafka’s coaching career blossomed in Kansas City, but he knew there was always a ceiling there since head coach Andy Reid called plays. So Kafka took his first offensive coordinator interview with the Giants — he was blocked from interviewing for the Eagles’ OC position in 2020 — and the opportunity to call plays was appealing.

“I loved my time in Kansas City,” Kafka said. “Was it easy to leave? No. But I know deep down in my heart this is an opportunity to grow and put your own stamp on it.”

...

Graham’s abrupt exit forced Daboll to scramble for alternatives. He again cast a wide net, with Martindale, Missouri defensive coordinator Steve Wilks and Bears defensive coordinator Sean Desai emerging as the finalists who came to New Jersey for in-person interviews.

Martindale unexpectedly became available in January after 10 years with the Ravens, including the last four as one of the top defensive coordinators in the NFL. Daboll and Martindale didn’t have a personal relationship, but there was mutual respect from their matchups as opposing play callers over the years.

Martindale was playing golf in Florida when Daboll first called about the Giants’ DC job.

“I was going to take a year off to play golf because I had a year left on my contract,” Martindale said.

The opportunity to join Daboll with the Giants, who interviewed Martindale for their head coaching job in 2020, was intriguing. A Zoom interview quickly led to an in-person meeting.

“They flew me up that night after I did the Zoom,” Martindale said. “I had nothing on but golf gear. I wore golf shoes into the interview. I had no suit and tie — nothing.”

...

Martindale’s credentials were unmatched by the other candidates — three finishes in the top three in scoring defense in four seasons as a DC. His swagger meshed well with Daboll’s staff. And there was no questioning he was going to be in demand if the Giants dragged their feet.

Daboll didn’t hesitate, and the Giants gave Martindale a three-year contract, a year longer than the typical coordinator deal.

“Going against his system, it’s a challenging system to prepare for. Always had a lot of respect for him and how he did things,” Daboll said. “I thought Wink did a fantastic job and hit it off with all the guys.”

...

“We’d come in, everybody works out in the morning; we grind and get taught the offense; we go to dinner, go back to the hotel and maybe have a cocktail and do it all over again,” Smith said. “It was paradise.”

Giants at Vikings: Odds, expert picks, discussion for Sunday's NFC Wild Card game

That’s exactly the feeling Daboll aimed to cultivate with his staff, knowing a strong chemistry among coaches would eventually cascade down to the players.

...

“When you’re bringing people in, as a leader, you’re also looking at how everybody meshes,” Daboll said. “Because just as important as players are to team chemistry, I’d say the coaches are as important and they have to set the culture and the chemistry.”

The results are impossible to dispute. Daboll took over a team that was tied for the worst record in the NFL over the previous five seasons. A salary cap mess and a depleted roster didn’t portend instant success. But the leadership of Daboll and his staff has guided the Giants out of the abyss and back to the playoffs.

“The culture here is so strong and the vibe is so different,” McGaughey said. “The players feel it. They know when the coaches are tight together and they know when the coaches aren’t tight together. I truly think the reason we’ve had the success that we’ve had is because we’re so tight-knit. Guys don’t blink because they like each other. They genuinely like each other and fight for each other. It’s just different. It really is.”

...

Full text of the story can be found here (subscription required): Inside Giants coach Brian Daboll’s ‘genius’ process for assembling all-star staff

Staff building in the NFL has typically been a "who you know" proposition, but Daboll didn't strictly go that route. He certainly wanted and hired some guys with whom he had some level of familiarity, but his guiding principles were competence and chemistry rather than familiarity.

Basically, it was more important that you be good at your job than that you be friends with the coach...

...and it worked.

Other NFL teams have noticed, and it's one of the reasons you can see teams doing interviews with outside assistants (like Fangio. Manuel, etc) who don't necessarily have any connection to their head coaching hire. Mind you, that's easy enough to do when that hire isn't determined yet

Will our next head coach consider this option? Maybe. Guys who have spent years trying to get a head coaching position have typically given some thought along the way to who they'd take with them, and it's a perfectly legitimate approach.

But the success that Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll have brought to the Giants by going "outside the box" is certainly something to think about.

[Dave Gettleman's Shorts]

who needs an NFL experienced coaching staff when you can hire your friends and yes-men - rhule

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Dave Gettleman's Shorts said:

who needs an NFL experienced coaching staff when you can hire your friends and yes-men - rhule

Yeah, well...

[Mr. Scot]

And yes, this could be relevant if we hire a younger coach like Ben Johnson, Shane Steichen or one of the others.

[Waldo]

I always thought coaching staffs filled out with only guys they had worked with before was a poor approach that led to stagnation. A HC shuld be able to know how to interview and know when they should hire outside of their coaching tree and current staff. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Waldo

[SmokinwithWilly]

15 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I always thought coaching staffs filled out with only guys they had worked with before was a poor approach that led to stagnation. A HC shuld be able to how to interview and know when they should hire outside of their coaching tree and current staff. 

It they aren't open to being uncomfortable with coaching hires, it makes you question their ability to become uncomfortable during game planning, half time adjustments and player evaluations. 

[top dawg]

I mean, I thought most coaches did this type of thing, but I could be wrong. 

[Waldo]

13 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It they aren't open to being uncomfortable with coaching hires, it makes you question their ability to become uncomfortable during game planning, half time adjustments and player evaluations. 

Which goes with the old ways we have seen around here that I desperately want to leave in the past. Add in player management too. 

[Panther'sBigD]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dan Duggan of The Athletic wrote a recent article about the Giants staffing process after hiring Brian Daboll that raises some interesting points.

From the article...

Thomas McGaughey had been the Giants’ special teams coordinator since 2018, serving on the staffs of previous head coaches Pat Shurmur and Joe Judge. When Judge was fired after last season, there was no guarantee his successor would retain any assistants, so McGaughey had to explore other options.

He was offered the special teams coordinator jobs with the Chargers and Panthers and declined an interview request from the Bears, but said, “I wasn’t real fired up about (the other teams), to be honest with you because I wanted to stay here.”

McGaughey had no relationship with Daboll, who made an introductory phone call when he became a candidate for the Giants job. The night he was hired, Daboll called McGaughey. The interview lasted five minutes.

“He was like, ‘OK, you’re in front of the room, first time you meet the team: Go!,’” McGaughey said. “He stopped me halfway through and he was like, ‘Look, do you want to be here?’ I was like, ‘Yeah, I want to be here.’ It’s been great ever since.”

...

Daboll and Kafka had no history aside from six months together with the Patriots during the 2013 offseason. Kafka was a backup quarterback, and Daboll was returning as tight ends coach after a series of unsuccessful OC jobs away from New England. They worked together to learn and re-learn the Patriots’ offense.

Kafka’s coaching career blossomed in Kansas City, but he knew there was always a ceiling there since head coach Andy Reid called plays. So Kafka took his first offensive coordinator interview with the Giants — he was blocked from interviewing for the Eagles’ OC position in 2020 — and the opportunity to call plays was appealing.

“I loved my time in Kansas City,” Kafka said. “Was it easy to leave? No. But I know deep down in my heart this is an opportunity to grow and put your own stamp on it.”

...

Graham’s abrupt exit forced Daboll to scramble for alternatives. He again cast a wide net, with Martindale, Missouri defensive coordinator Steve Wilks and Bears defensive coordinator Sean Desai emerging as the finalists who came to New Jersey for in-person interviews.

Martindale unexpectedly became available in January after 10 years with the Ravens, including the last four as one of the top defensive coordinators in the NFL. Daboll and Martindale didn’t have a personal relationship, but there was mutual respect from their matchups as opposing play callers over the years.

Martindale was playing golf in Florida when Daboll first called about the Giants’ DC job.

“I was going to take a year off to play golf because I had a year left on my contract,” Martindale said.

The opportunity to join Daboll with the Giants, who interviewed Martindale for their head coaching job in 2020, was intriguing. A Zoom interview quickly led to an in-person meeting.

“They flew me up that night after I did the Zoom,” Martindale said. “I had nothing on but golf gear. I wore golf shoes into the interview. I had no suit and tie — nothing.”

...

Martindale’s credentials were unmatched by the other candidates — three finishes in the top three in scoring defense in four seasons as a DC. His swagger meshed well with Daboll’s staff. And there was no questioning he was going to be in demand if the Giants dragged their feet.

Daboll didn’t hesitate, and the Giants gave Martindale a three-year contract, a year longer than the typical coordinator deal.

“Going against his system, it’s a challenging system to prepare for. Always had a lot of respect for him and how he did things,” Daboll said. “I thought Wink did a fantastic job and hit it off with all the guys.”

...

“We’d come in, everybody works out in the morning; we grind and get taught the offense; we go to dinner, go back to the hotel and maybe have a cocktail and do it all over again,” Smith said. “It was paradise.”

Giants at Vikings: Odds, expert picks, discussion for Sunday's NFC Wild Card game

That’s exactly the feeling Daboll aimed to cultivate with his staff, knowing a strong chemistry among coaches would eventually cascade down to the players.

...

“When you’re bringing people in, as a leader, you’re also looking at how everybody meshes,” Daboll said. “Because just as important as players are to team chemistry, I’d say the coaches are as important and they have to set the culture and the chemistry.”

The results are impossible to dispute. Daboll took over a team that was tied for the worst record in the NFL over the previous five seasons. A salary cap mess and a depleted roster didn’t portend instant success. But the leadership of Daboll and his staff has guided the Giants out of the abyss and back to the playoffs.

“The culture here is so strong and the vibe is so different,” McGaughey said. “The players feel it. They know when the coaches are tight together and they know when the coaches aren’t tight together. I truly think the reason we’ve had the success that we’ve had is because we’re so tight-knit. Guys don’t blink because they like each other. They genuinely like each other and fight for each other. It’s just different. It really is.”

...

Full text of the story can be found here (subscription required): Inside Giants coach Brian Daboll’s ‘genius’ process for assembling all-star staff

Staff building in the NFL has typically been a "who you know" proposition, but Daboll didn't strictly go that route. He certainly wanted and hired some guys with whom he had some level of familiarity, but his guiding principles were competence and chemistry rather than familiarity.

Basically, it was more important that you be good at your job than that you be friends with the coach...

...and it worked.

Other NFL teams have noticed, and it's one of the reasons you can see teams doing interviews with outside assistants (like Fangio. Manuel, etc) who don't necessarily have any connection to their head coaching hire. Mind you, that's easy enough to do when that hire isn't determined yet

Will our next head coach consider this option? Maybe. Guys who have spent years trying to get a head coaching position have typically given some thought along the way to who they'd take with them, and it's a perfectly legitimate approach.

But the success that Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll have brought to the Giants by going "outside the box" is certainly something to think about.

It's crazy that meritocracy is seen as 'outside the box' thinking while cronyism/nepotism is seen as the tried and true way to build a staff. Not saying that's what you said, it's just the sense I get from the chatter from the usual NFL talking heads. 

 

[Donald LaFell]

5 hours ago, Panther'sBigD said:

It's crazy that meritocracy is seen as 'outside the box' thinking while cronyism/nepotism is seen as the tried and true way to build a staff. Not saying that's what you said, it's just the sense I get from the chatter from the usual NFL talking heads. 

 

Yeah it’s shockingly stupid but plenty of these grown men are so no surprise. 

[scpanther22]

9 hours ago, Dave Gettleman's Shorts said:

who needs an NFL experienced coaching staff when you can hire your friends and yes-men - rhule

-corporate America 

[JawnyBlaze]

Yea the myth that guys only bring in their buddies and guys they’ve worked with gets regurgitated here every time we’re in the market for a coach.  When a coach does that (Rivera with everyone he hired, Rhule with Snow) it rarely works out. 

[Reebis21]

Hope this means whoever is hired, will keep Campen…this guy better be retained!

[Mr. Scot]

In a similar vein from The 33rd Team, original Panthers GM Bill Polian talks about the head coaching interview process

Quote that caught my attention from the article...

The combination of the Rooney Rule requirements and the high turnover rate among head coaches every year usually results in a high number (10 or so) of initial interviewees. If, however, you have more than five finalists, including the Rooney Rule candidates, you probably have not done a good enough job in the initial screening process. To quote coach Marv Levy, “If you have too many, you don’t have any.”

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mr. Scot