I Think it Should Be Wilks...

[SetfreexX]

7 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

No thanks this team needs a new direction. We’re just going round in circles with these conservative defensive coaches. McDermott has learned to be aggressive having Josh Allen really helps you turn the corner though 

So you're saying McD is the only defensive minded coach capable of learning...and that you ACTUALLY need a QB to not lean towards being conservative when trying to win games because you are at a disadvantage....

Man I wonder what I've been trying to explain this whole time....*checks notes*

Damn, that's exactly what I've been saying, the primary issue isn't outright the coach now that Rhule is gone, it's the absence of 1) A legit NFL QB, and 2) A legit NFL OC / mind on the staff in general.

[Ricky Spanish]

10 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

HC Candidates Linked to Panthers:

Sean Payton

Frank Reich

Jim Caldwell

Kellen Moore - Been an OC for 3 years iirc

Ken Dorsey - First year OC in BUF, been a QB Coach for several 

Shane Steichen - Been an OC with LAC / PHI the past three years

Demeco Ryans - Turned down opps

Ben Johnson - Staying with DET

____________________________________________________

These are who come to mind off the top of my head, Payton, Reich, Caldwell I could all see being better than Rivera, I have also said I'm good with two of the three (would prefer not to lose draft capital to hire a coach)

Of the three young OCs up and coming who is getting you into the playoffs, and what makes you feel that way, what can you base it on that is tangible. Who will be their DCs based on what's available, etc.

 

I dunno man. Honestly I don't. HC is such a crapshoot to begin with, but I'd rather swing for the fences than settle for what is familiar.

[Bear Hands]

1 minute ago, SetfreexX said:

The other bars provided were limited at best...and without context. 

If it's derailed its derailed by those with no intent to have an open conversation about it versus simply dismissing the notion like has been done by many, or simply, ''not making it past the title'' which is why those folks were categorized and I even included ''in jest'' as to not seriously demean, belittle, or provoke. 

It seems that effort may have been lost in the effort to respond as quick as possible to ''call me out''. 

Appreciate the response.  I understand your defense on that end you speak to.

For me, still not sold on the prospect of Wilks.  It just feels very Mike Pettine to me and I just would like to finally get past the Rivera & Rhule eras. It just feels like we've been caught in this slighty under .500 feedback loop and there's no end in sight.  

Full detachment.  Wilks, and even Dorsey to a degree, would likely bring a lot of usual suspect back into the building.  

If people are criticizing the experience of some of these young coaches, I think it's fair to take note of Wilks' limited experience as a coordinator and HC.  

I don't think he'd necessarily do a bad job, the first TB game this year was fire.  Great stuff.  But I'd be lying if I wouldn't be absolutely deflated by us hiring him full time.  

[SetfreexX]

31 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Do note, I didn't qualify the records, just said he took over McD's defense.  That's one of only 2 years as a coordinator. 

Like I prefaced, AZ was likely not his doing but you have to take note and check things out.  It doesn't mean all critique of him during that period can somehow be discounted.  And yes, that is 5 years ago because he was subsequently with Cleveland, then wasn't even in football in 2020 and in Mizzou in 2021.  

No need to get into the nitty gritty when the big picture is so undoubtedly clear that we can and should do better.  Losing by double digits is losing by double digits.  Nothing against the guy, I'm not trying to mindlessly bash, but we have to move forward here.  

I wonder how many other NFL teams lost 3 games or more by double digits 

• SEA - 3 double digit losses
• NYG - 3 double digit losses
• MIN - 5 double digit losses
• MIA - 4 double digit losses

_______________________________________________
Here are four playoff teams that were WC / Division winner (MIN) -- the division winner has the same amount as us under Wilks...

The difference all those teams have is they have a competent quarterback. Off or Def minded or not, it doesn't matter if you don't have a quarterback.  

You'd think and ''offensive'' minded guy wouldn't lose by double digits, the coach in MIA he's such a brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter if Tua or Teddy B are playing, offensive mind will over come the absence of a viable quarterback.

And to some degree I say that with sarcasm as like I mentioned, you have to have a quarterback to score, the fact we only had three with Wilks and a QB carousel says a lot about the job he did here with a skeleton staff / post firing some Rhule left overs (Cooper / Snow). 

What's the next goalpost we want to move?

[Bear Hands]

3 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I wonder how many other NFL teams lost 3 games or more by double digits 

• SEA - 3 double digit losses
• NYG - 3 double digit losses
• MIN - 5 double digit losses
• MIA - 4 double digit losses

_______________________________________________
Here are four playoff teams that were WC / Division winner (MIN) -- the division winner has the same amount as us under Wilks...

The difference all those teams have is they have a competent quarterback. Off or Def minded or not, it doesn't matter if you don't have a quarterback.  

You'd think and ''offensive'' minded guy wouldn't lose by double digits, the coach in MIA he's such a brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter if Tua or Teddy B are playing, offensive mind will over come the absence of a viable quarterback.

And to some degree I say that with sarcasm as like I mentioned, you have to have a quarterback to score, the fact we only had three with Wilks and a QB carousel says a lot about the job he did here with a skeleton staff / post firing some Rhule left overs (Cooper / Snow). 

What's the next goalpost we want to move?

I haven't moved any.  He lost by double digits 12 of his 19 losses as a HC.  That's all.  

I don't think he's a quality enough coach.  

[SetfreexX]

13 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

I dunno man. Honestly I don't. HC is such a crapshoot to begin with, but I'd rather swing for the fences than settle for what is familiar.

How can we say Wilks is familiar, to Ron, or Fox until he actually has a QB / Staff to judge him in full by?

That's why I think it should be him, these new guys bring little experience if any even in their area of expertise (1-3 years of OC experience) and never led a team, and on the other hand Wilks has a lot of NFL experience which is why I think he was able to do what he did this year, which to me earned a look moving forward. 

For all the respect Josh McDaniels received as an OC, look what he's done in DEN / OAK. Do we really thing a McVay, or Shanahan is to be found in Steichen / Moore / Dorsey?

That's all I'm saying.

[SetfreexX]

18 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Appreciate the response.  I understand your defense on that end you speak to.

For me, still not sold on the prospect of Wilks.  It just feels very Mike Pettine to me and I just would like to finally get past the Rivera & Rhule eras. It just feels like we've been caught in this slighty under .500 feedback loop and there's no end in sight.  

Full detachment.  Wilks, and even Dorsey to a degree, would likely bring a lot of usual suspect back into the building.  

If people are criticizing the experience of some of these young coaches, I think it's fair to take note of Wilks' limited experience as a coordinator and HC.  

I don't think he'd necessarily do a bad job, the first TB game this year was fire.  Great stuff.  But I'd be lying if I wouldn't be absolutely deflated by us hiring him full time.  

Then who's the hire that gets you excited, what does ''x'' candidate bring that warrants the excitement. 

NFL coaching staffs are an exercise in nepotism, always has been a good ole' boys / my guys kind of operation. That's not going to change with a new coach, Steichen will pull from PHI's staff / Dorsey from BUF and possibly some former Panthers guys elsewhere / Moore would bring guys from DAL, and maybe even some collegiate contacts he's maintained, same for Reich / Caldwell both former Colts coaches. 

The only that would really changes is tied to if the coach is an Off minded guy versus Def, and most comments in here simply ''want'' an Off minded guy, but no real preference has been provided, and no real record of success for any of them has been referenced, which I covered in the fact that I'd like Reich or Caldwell. 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

42 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Being better then rhule shouldnt be the determining factor for getting this job

If better than Rhule was determining factor for getting this job, half the huddle would be qualified to interview.

[SetfreexX]

6 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I haven't moved any.  He lost by double digits 12 of his 19 losses as a HC.  That's all.  

I don't think he's a quality enough coach.  

So when nine are from a team not of his making, not of his choosing, you hang all nine simply on him ''not being quality enough'' when he just took a 1-4 team to 7 and 10....

I'd say that's some damn good coaching considering the gaps we have on the roster, and no QB. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

So on this roster with McAdoo as the inherited OC, and Baker, Sam, and PJ...you want to just air it out all over the yard just because that's what teams do now...

Teams that can do that generally have the personnel to do that, and that starts with a QB...

So who we ushering in this new age with that was on the 2022 Panthers roster...

Did I say air it out? No I didn't. You don't have to air it out all the time, but you do have to pass and there are lots of coordinators designing game plans to get guys open. Designing a game plan that centers around what your opponent is best at defending is not one of the qualities I'm looking for. You can say that's all McAdoo if you want, but making sure your game plan is built to exploit your opponents weaknesses is pretty much HC 101 in my book. The rest is Fox/Rivera style football. 

You want Wilks. That's your prerogative. I want an offense oriented guy that is creative and ultimately already does what the NFL is trending towards, which is offense. That's my prerogative. 

[frankw]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

Pretty sure PJ had early turnovers that sparked the snowball, and if you watch the pressers, two of those three TD's was man coverage with deep safety help for each half of the field. 

So a better question would be were was the help, Keith like when Donte' fell just got beat by a better received. 

Wilks re-capped it in the presser after the game. If you only watched the game I could see how you might feel that way. 

Back to CIN let's not act like they are not a good team, and team many aspire to be. We got whooped, but the offense as we know being limited didn't show up, and the turnovers early killed us which meant running was no longer an option.

Right but Wilks has a heavy defensive background that's his bread and butter. And honestly man the Bengals are still a good team but they've taken a step back overall from last season. Look at how close the Ravens played them with Huntley starting. There's nothing wrong with wanting to roll the dice on Wilks but like any of the other candidates we have to acknowledge the pros and cons and after years of watching John Fox and Ron Rivera in a league that has changed substantially in the last decade there's also nothing wrong with wanting to roll those same dice on a different philosophy altogether.

[amcoolio]

The guy had an open audition for the job. You can't lose that Tampa game or Pittsburgh game against Mitch Trubisky and expect to win the job

[Bear Hands]

Just now, SetfreexX said:

So when nine are from a team not of his making, not of his choosing, you hang all nine simply on him ''not being quality enough'' when he just took a 1-4 team to 7 and 10....

I'd say that's some damn good coaching considering the gaps we have on the roster, and no QB. 

He was given a bad hand in Arizona, but that shouldn't discount looking at what happened that may be causes for concern on his end. If anything it just masked deficiencies since it sounds like we're essentially saying that year is voided from his resume. 

He did seem better as our interim in the HC spot after being out of football and then in Missouri.  I give the guy mad credit, but again, his closest working relationship in the league is with Ron.  Can we please not? 

Gonna have to agree to disagree here.  I'm not sold on what you're selling.  Not seeing the case outside of excuses.  AZ-not his fault, CLE-not his fault, this year-he had us competing, but PIT, BAL, CIN--not his fault. He was on board so was the man to give this nosedive a few nice punches on the way down to a soft landing.  Doesn't mean he's suddenly the best captain, he was the best given the circumstance.  Now's the time to broaden the field and compare him to the rest. 

 

 

[Jon Snow]