Pauline believes it's Stroud, but Reich wants AR

[travisura]

20 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Tua was injected into this argument as a means to make an argument against Young. Just because he turned it, don't get mad.

I'm perfectly fine with Young. I don't think the injury concern is a big enough reason to not take him, if the staff feels that he's the guy. But I'm also not going to act like the concerns regarding his size are "imagined". You can want Young and still be realistic.

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, travisura said:

I'm perfectly fine with Young. I don't think the injury concern is a big enough reason to not take him, if the staff feels that he's the guy. But I'm also not going to act like the concerns regarding his size are "imagined". You can want Young and still be realistic.

The concerns regarding his size aren't imagined, but his injury history---especially as compared to Tua or even Kyler---is imagined. 

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Tua was clearly more injury prone coming into the NFL.  It was unfortunate for him and not his fault but the injury history was there.  Young’s size is a concern and I won’t deny it but any of these guys can get injured.  It’s a risk for every player

Someone breaking bones has little to do with them having concussions.  It's the impact of him being tossed to the ground that is causing him troubles in the NFL.  I don't think any of his college injuries have come back.  It's concerning, but I will say Young looks much better at taking hits (as weird as that sounds) than many QBs.  He simply goes with the momentum and keeps his body limp.  It's almost like he trained himself for it which I wouldn't be surprised if he did.  He is obsessive in his training with usually translate great in the NFL.

[top dawg]

19 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I feel like people are arguing against physics...  Would you feel safer getting in the same wreck in a SUV or a Miata? 

Stroud is hardly an SUV, and that Miata has held up just as well, if not better.

[mrcompletely11]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Because it's a current NFL example. I really don't understand why this is such a struggle for you.

I know why........

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

The concerns regarding his size aren't imagined, but his injury history---especially as compared to Tua or even Kyler---is imagined. 

Everything is technically "imagined" right now as none of these guys have taken one NFL snap.  Part of the evaluation process is projecting how their skills will translate to the NFL.  It's no secret his size is conering to some teams.  It's why he isn't the clear cut top choice.  Also I don't recall Kyler getting many injuries in college if any at all.  

[Ivory Panther]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

But no one is arguing Stroud's size is of zero concern. If Young wasn't in this draft and Stroud was there at his size beside Richardson and Levis then there would be more talk of Stroud's size. But Young is in this draft and his size is of much more concern than Stroud's. Stroud is on the smaller size of "check the box size" for an NFL QB. But Young is waaaaaaay below it.

It'd be like having a 290 pound DT prospect and the fans of the 250 pound DT prospect point to him and say "Hey, he's not ideal size either!" 

Yeah, he's not but he's just smaller than ideal while your guy is "he'll be the smallest guy to ever succeed at this position in the modern NFL" size.

U may not be making this argument on the board but there are many who do! 

So as long as we can agree that he is not, as ur quote says, I think that’s fair. 

[WUnderhill]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

All receivers take hits.

If you've got the choice of who to send over the middle, are you picking Anquan Boldin or Tutu Atwell?

I think this makes a better point for Bryce tbh. You don’t pass on the smaller receiver even though he’s better than the bigger receiver, we’ve looked at WR this way for a long time. Some guys are bigger possession type guys that you are more comfortable sending over the middle, some guys you use differently. You can draft Bryce and not have him “go over the middle” as much. He’s got great awareness and senses blind side pressure really well, you couple that with how you game plan, make sure he’s not running too much, etc.

I think it’s easier to protect him (and make sure he’s sliding and protecting himself as well), coupled with his elite pocket presence and slipperiness, than it is to try to train another guy to throw with the anticipation that Bryce does for example.

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Stroud is hardly an SUV, and that Miata has held up just as well, if not better.

It was a clear exaggeration that larger items/people can handle the same impact better than smaller ones all things else being equal.  It's just physics.  

[mrcompletely11]

1 hour ago, Ivory Panther said:

Bro relax!

not saying bryce size is not. Simply saying CJ is smaller than Tua who is the poster child for QB injuries right now, so if size for QB is a concern, there should be concerns for CJ as well. Lesser concerned than bryce but still a concern which I have yet to see. 

You've said numerous times you personally are not worried about his size and the issue is overblown. 

[Ivory Panther]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

You've said numerous times you personally are not worried about his size and the issue is overblown. 

It’s not a concern to me.
But I understand it is to many. 
pretty simple concept to understand! Lol

[top dawg]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Everything is technically "imagined" right now as none of these guys have taken one NFL snap.  Part of the evaluation process is projecting how their skills will translate to the NFL.  It's no secret his size is conering to some teams.  It's why he isn't the clear cut top choice.  Also I don't recall Kyler getting many injuries in college if any at all.  

Coaches rightfully look at injury history during evaluations. Obviously, if you have an injury history it's easier to project (or at least imagine) injuries. Injury history is real and not imagined. Projecting injuries based upon size has come to the forefront of discussions due to Young's size, and that is absolutely imagining injuries, which is absolutely a slippery slope, and not an evaluation of talent.

Edited April 7, 2023 by top dawg

[mrcompletely11]

29 minutes ago, top dawg said:

To each his own. 

Tua came into the league with real injury concerns. Young will come into the league with imagined injury concerns. 

His prior injury history has nothing to do with the concussions he suffered from being "ragged dolled"

[TheMaulClaw]

35 minutes ago, travisura said:

The problem is that the exact same logic that you're using to claim we moved up for CJ, is also being used to claim we moved up for AR.

That's not a problem.  You're speaking stricly from the perspective of moving up after the combine.  I'm saying that Josh McCown raved over CJ Stroud prior to any employment with the Panthers, so we can take that as authentic.  He gets hired.  In that interview with Reich he discussed the potential qbs in the draft, not a stretch.  CJ Stroud by far had the best combine when it comes to qb related drills aka throwing the ball. AR is a freak though (he's my qb2)  Young doesn't even participate.   We move up in the draft before we see Youngs workout.  Now the media is trying to paint this like we moved up to number one so we could take our time and go through this evaluation process.  The reality is, if we truly felt that all these qbs were very close to eachother, then we probably would have just traded with AZ, kept DJ Moore, and would have gotten AR.  This would have benefited Chicago in what they were going to demand in a trade if we did this.  Fitterer said himself that if you move up to number one, then you better be sold on a guy, because you are going all in at that point.  Fitterer said that prior to the trade.

This isn't hard to put the pieces together, but it's good that they've thrown up good smokescreens.  The reality is, if you look at the Panthers' actions it's pretty simple to see who they're are going to take.  

The media doesn't want you to know who the Panthers are taking because it's not good for ratings when it comes to the draft, that's smart business.  That's all we're seeing here.