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The question of the day: is Derrick Brown good, elite, or fine?

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pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

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He's not a pass rusher. He wasn't drafted to be a pass rusher.  He did have a slow start, but the last half of his rookie season was fantastic.  

He had a down year, but he rebounded. Top 10 is where he should be rated currently. He still has room to grow. 

He's worth an extension, unless they can find an upgrade in the draft next year. 

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pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

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15 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

He’s elite for his role, which isn’t to be Aaron Donald and yet is still critical for those around him. Same way Star was great in a way that casuals couldn’t appreciate. 

Those tackles are rare, plus playba different role than what Brown is asked to do. 

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WhoKnows Grand Master

WhoKnows

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33 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

He's not a pass rusher. He wasn't drafted to be a pass rusher.  He did have a slow start, but the last half of his rookie season was fantastic.  

He had a down year, but he rebounded. Top 10 is where he should be rated currently. He still has room to grow. 

He's worth an extension, unless they can find an upgrade in the draft next year. 

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

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pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

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6 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

Disagree all you want to, use your eye balls and see how the Panthers were playing him. 

I swear nobody know what common sense and observation is anymore. 

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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8 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

You absolutely take NTs that high. Think the Bucs regret spending a top 12 pick on Vea?  What about Baltimore and Haloti Ngata?  Good DTs like those two and Brown affect the game in other ways than their own pass rush. They disrupt an offense, whether by pushing the pocket into the lap of the QB or redirecting run plays or simply taking on blockers to give other defensive players freedom to do work.  DTs like Brown are unsung heroes because they don’t stockpile stats but they are one of the biggest impact players on a defense, and for more than a sack a game or so. The best pass rushers in history didn’t even get their precious sacks more than 1.5 times a game. 

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WhoKnows Grand Master

WhoKnows

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41 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

You absolutely take NTs that high. Think the Bucs regret spending a top 12 pick on Vea?  What about Baltimore and Haloti Ngata?  Good DTs like those two and Brown affect the game in other ways than their own pass rush. They disrupt an offense, whether by pushing the pocket into the lap of the QB or redirecting run plays or simply taking on blockers to give other defensive players freedom to do work.  DTs like Brown are unsung heroes because they don’t stockpile stats but they are one of the biggest impact players on a defense, and for more than a sack a game or so. The best pass rushers in history didn’t even get their precious sacks more than 1.5 times a game. 

Vea had 6.5 sacks last year. That’s 0.5 more than Brown in 3 years. Brown went 7th, Vea 12th. Ngata went 12th as well and in year 4 started a run of 5 straight pro bowls with three years of 5+ sacks. Do you see Brown starting a run of 5 straight pro bowls or getting 5-6 sacks?

There’s a huge difference between 12th and 7th. Herbert was the QB that went right before Brown. Rosen was the QB who went 2 picks before Vea. Star went 14th.

Brown was as good as we could get unless we wanted to go tackle (I wanted Wirfs) or WR (Lamb or Jefferson would be fun). That draft was tough and we likely should have traded up then if we liked Herbert so much.

I’m not dissing Brown, but he hasn’t gotten to Vea/Ngata level and IMHO 7th is too high for a NT without sacks. Only way the pick was worth it over say Wirfs or a trade up for QB (would have cost less), is if he ups his pass rush game this year and becomes a pro-bowler. Vea and Ngata both made it year 4.

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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24 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Vea had 6.5 sacks last year. That’s 0.5 more than Brown in 3 years. Brown went 7th, Vea 12th. Ngata went 12th as well and in year 4 started a run of 5 straight pro bowls with three years of 5+ sacks. Do you see Brown starting a run of 5 straight pro bowls or getting 5-6 sacks?

There’s a huge difference between 12th and 7th. Herbert was the QB that went right before Brown. Rosen was the QB who went 2 picks before Vea. Star went 14th.

Brown was as good as we could get unless we wanted to go tackle (I wanted Wirfs) or WR (Lamb or Jefferson would be fun). That draft was tough and we likely should have traded up then if we liked Herbert so much.

I’m not dissing Brown, but he hasn’t gotten to Vea/Ngata level and IMHO 7th is too high for a NT without sacks. Only way the pick was worth it over say Wirfs or a trade up for QB (would have cost less), is if he ups his pass rush game this year and becomes a pro-bowler. Vea and Ngata both made it year 4.

There isn’t a huge difference between 12 and 7 when talking about whether a position is drafted at that spot or not. No position is “not good value” at 7 but “good value” at 12. Ngata had 32 sacks in 12 years. He wasn’t a sack guy.  I respect your opinion, but I greatly disagree that sacks are needed or even a good indicator of contribution or value at that position.  Brown had been improving every year and started out well too. He’s not far off of Vea, if less at all (I’d have to watch more of Vea to give a strong opinion).  And 5 sacks, 6 sacks, these are not significant numbers. For a position where sacks are tertiary at best, you have to judge based on how they disrupt the offense as a whole, not whether they get a sack every few games or not. It’s like saying a WR who gets 1300 receiving yards and 300 rushing yards is worth #7 but not a WR that gets 1300 receiving yards and 50 rushing yards. 

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