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Vikings tried to trade up for Bryce Young?

NAS

By NAS,
in Carolina Panthers

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poundaway Grand Master

poundaway

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

I don't think you get it

No, they don't line up 40 yards off the ball, but if you have a speedster at WR and a QB with a monster arm, it causes safeties to back up once the ball is snapped and run with that WR running the go-route.

It's not even about completing the passes that deep, it's about having the ability to do so and thus forcing the defense to respect and defend that possibility.  It opens up underneath routes, particularly in the middle of the field, as it removes the safety from that area of the field by default.

It's like why teams with Lebron on it need to build a team filled with shooters around him.  It's to keep the defense needed to stay close to them, and thus open up space in the lane for Lebron to do his work.  To further the basketball analogy, it's like when a terrible shooter gets the ball outside the 3 point line and the defense completely sags off them because they're unafraid of them shooting the 3.  

Same concept, not hard to understand, it's about the threat of something and the defense needing to account for it.

No.  You don't get it.

Its only a threat if you complete them that far.  Long and wrong is not a threat.  Only 2 of the 8 that Mahomes threw longer than 40 yards were even catchable.

Yes >40 yards opens up underneath routes, but it does NOT have to be 60.  Last year, in an entire season Mahomes did not once complete a pass more than 60 yards, but you say that you must be able to complete those.  50 yards opens up the underneath routes just as well as 60.  Young has COMPLETED 50+ yard throws.   

He doesn't have the biggest gun, but as Reich said, he can make the throws a QB needs in the NFL.   Apparently, Texans, Vikings and Reich agree on that.  I'm sorry you don't.

 

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poundaway Grand Master

poundaway

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We had the quarterback who has thrown the longest ball in the history of the NFL.  It was a 70.5 yard hail mary thrown against the Baltimore Ravens.  It fell incomplete.

His name is Baker Mayfield and he made that throw when he played for the Browns.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

Posted
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17 minutes ago, poundaway said:

We had the quarterback who has thrown the longest ball in the history of the NFL.  It was a 70.5 yard hail mary thrown against the Baltimore Ravens.  It fell incomplete.

His name is Baker Mayfield and he made that throw when he played for the Browns.

And all folks are saying is he has a stronger arm than Bryce. That doesn’t make him a better QB. Bryce just had a lower end or middling arm compared to his peers. 

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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41 minutes ago, poundaway said:

No.  You don't get it.

Its only a threat if you complete them that far.  Long and wrong is not a threat.  Only 2 of the 8 that Mahomes threw longer than 40 yards were even catchable.

Yes >40 yards opens up underneath routes, but it does NOT have to be 60.  Last year, in an entire season Mahomes did not once complete a pass more than 60 yards, but you say that you must be able to complete those.  50 yards opens up the underneath routes just as well as 60.  Young has COMPLETED 50+ yard throws.   

He doesn't have the biggest gun, but as Reich said, he can make the throws a QB needs in the NFL.   Apparently, Texans, Vikings and Reich agree on that.  I'm sorry you don't.

 

No, you are totally incorrect here.

It's not about actually completing it, at all.  Just because Mahomes only completed 2 passes like that last year, doesn't mean when they sent their WR's on those go routes that the defense just said, "we're good" once they get past 40ish yards and not worry about it.

Just the ability of the QB to put the ball out there at that distance forces the defense to play a little further back.  In every defensive scouting report against a team like the Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, etc (teams with those massive armed QB's), it will have notes in there about watching out for the super deep ball, being aware of it, and accounting for it.

That just will never show up in a scouting report for Bryce, because he doesn't have that arm.

And again, nobody has once said this is a disqualifier for him to being a successful QB, people are just pointing out that he has average arm strength and it takes one thing off the table for us that other teams may have.  Which I think is the bigger problem here, you're just missing the point as to why people are talking about it.

Nobody is saying it's going to keep him from being good, but if you can't objectively look at your players and know their strengths, weaknesses, and how either can benefit or hinder a team's performance, then you have no standing in a discussion like this.  Everything isn't rainbows and butterflies, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling either.

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

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12 hours ago, NAS said:

Can he make every NFL throw with his arm strength?  yes

Does he make up for lack of top tier arm strength with top tier anticipation?  Yes

I love Cam but one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of anticipation and he would often have to rely on his arm strength to get the ball to the receiver on time.  We saw what happened when that arm strength went away due to injuries and he couldn't play anymore.

No. Some throws will simply be off the table with Young's arm strength.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, NAS said:

Ha! I remember many said Burrow would fail because of his arm strength 

Yeah you can go back and read the draft profiles. Below average arm strength is usually listed as a weakness.

Also about Manning

The number one thing scouting reports got wrong on Manning was that he had a limited upside. This was a knock on him as he didn’t have the arm a player like Leaf had coming out of college and was a pure pocket passer. While there was truth to his limited upside physically he had unlimited potential overall. As he grew as a pro he understood the game even more which helped him consistently make the correct reads in the passing game or make changes at the line of scrimmage. These two skills were things that ended up making him an all-time great.

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poundaway Grand Master

poundaway

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3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

No, you are totally incorrect here.

It's not about actually completing it, at all.  Just because Mahomes only completed 2 passes like that last year, doesn't mean when they sent their WR's on those go routes that the defense just said, "we're good" once they get past 40ish yards and not worry about it.

Just the ability of the QB to put the ball out there at that distance forces the defense to play a little further back.  In every defensive scouting report against a team like the Chiefs, Chargers, Bills, etc (teams with those massive armed QB's), it will have notes in there about watching out for the super deep ball, being aware of it, and accounting for it.

That just will never show up in a scouting report for Bryce, because he doesn't have that arm.

And again, nobody has once said this is a disqualifier for him to being a successful QB, people are just pointing out that he has average arm strength and it takes one thing off the table for us that other teams may have.  Which I think is the bigger problem here, you're just missing the point as to why people are talking about it.

Nobody is saying it's going to keep him from being good, but if you can't objectively look at your players and know their strengths, weaknesses, and how either can benefit or hinder a team's performance, then you have no standing in a discussion like this.  Everything isn't rainbows and butterflies, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling either.

I'm not saying Young has a awesome arm.  His arm strength is midling. 

Few QB's have Allen's arm.

You're just overestimating the importance of being able to throw 60+ yards inaccurately.  As I said Mahomes threw beyond 40 yards just 8 times last year.  One completion at 57.

How many of Mahomes' passes sailed longer than 60? 

If it is so important, surely someone tracks the vital stat.

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WUnderhill Grand Master

WUnderhill

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Well shoot guess we gotta cut the 80 air yard throws to Tyreek Hill out of the play book. Definitely need to force safeties to play off far enough to not get beat on 80 yd bombs in today’s NFL, that’s definitely a thing. It’s just not enough for them to have to respect a 60 yd throw.

Jeez the things some of you find to complain about.

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