REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

[Rubi]

10 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Since when has unproven talent been fantastic?

 

There's no guarantee we hit on those picks and one of those picks would have surely been used on a DE to replace Burns. Is a extra 1st worth losing our pass rush in Burns?

 

I think not. Also we would be in rebuild mode at that point. We literally just traded all our vets in CMC/Moore/Burns.

 

 

You can sign vet defenders who are quality. Yea you draft to replace people. That’s how the league works. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Rubi

[csx]

12 hours ago, BlackPanther22 said:

Yeaaaahhh, that’s solely on the media for not asking. Most of our media people are solid but there are some that were asking about a lot less important things than Burns’ contract last week. 

It's a waste of a question. They know they wont get any answer other than "we don't discuss contract negotiations".  There are much more useful questions to ask.

[MHS831]

Some of you may be familiar with the book by Jim Collins entitled Good to Great. While his conclusions are not always consistent (Cherry picked), he makes a point that underlies his primary theme:

Good is the enemy of Great because most people are satisfied with being good.  There is less motivation to take that next step because you reached a status of being good at your job.

In the NFL, the line between good and great is blurry.  So much depends on your scheme, quality of teammates, random opportunity, etc.  The difference between 10 sacks and 15 sacks, if you think about it, is 5 plays over the course of about 450 passing opportunities for each player.   Some are awarded sacks when the defensive backs cover up the QBs options and the clock runs out, forcing him into the grasp of an otherwise stonewalled edge rusher.  Other times middle pressure forces the QB to hold the ball etc etc. 

The better gauge of an edge rusher's worth might be to see how his presence impacts the offense--do they keep a RB or TE in to chip him?  How many pressures does he get?  Etc.  I dunno.  So I understand why this is problematic.  Burns averages 9.5 sacks for his 4-year career.  However,over the last 3 seasons, he has averaged about 33 solo tackles and 21 QB hits.  He has averaged about 9.5 tackles for loss over the same period.  His DB play has been erratic at best--so how does that stack up vs. Bosa?  The biggest difference (he was injured his second year, so I am looking at his top 3 seasons) is in the area of QB hits--Bosa averaged about 33 hits per season, 12 more than Burns.  Bosa averaged 38 solo tackles per season, compared to Burns 33.  And in Bosa's top 3 seasons (rookie, 3 and 4) he averaged 14.33 sacks per season, vs. Burns' 9.5.

In my estimation, Burns is good, Bosa is great. We shall see how much difference their paychecks reflect

Edited September 8, 2023 by MHS831

[Leaky_Faucet]

19 hours ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Have been told they are close. 

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

[mrcompletely11]

5 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

If that happens then fitt needs to find one as well

[KSpan]

8 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

After declining that windfall last year such a scenario would just be... hilarious. Sad, but hilarious.

Edited September 8, 2023 by KSpan

[PantherKyle]

8 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

Wow.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

After declining that windfall last year such a scenario would just be... hilarious. Sad, but hilarious.

very panthery indeed

[Coheed]

9 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If that happens then fitt needs to find one as well

I’ve been a fan of Scott but have to agree here. This would be (very panther esque) fug up. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

2 hours ago, KSpan said:

The front office, maybe even including Tepper, misjudging where the team was at and the work required to turn things around with a new staff, new schemes, new QB, new skill position players, etc, does not mean it's not a rebuid or restart. It pretty clearly is. To your original question no, you don't always trade players that need to be paid, but in some situations it makes sense to do so. This was one of them and they blew it, a bounty of picks to grow with a shiny new rookie QB and a ton of cap room for a guy that is driving to be paid more than his on-field contribution to date. MAybe he earns it and grows into a more complete player. Only time will tell.

The flip argument here is that a team doesn't always have to hang on to every one of their good players - that can be a path to cap purgatory. See Deangelo and Stewart, Olsen, TD, etc.

Unproven picks are not a guarantee.

 

One of them will be used on a edge rusher to replace Burns.

 

So where are the weapons for Bryce coming from?

[SmokinwithWilly]

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If that happens then fitt needs to find one as well

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

[CRA]

21 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

I mean, GTD is what the whole thing is and really has always been about. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 hour ago, Rubi said:

You can sign vet defenders who are quality. Yea you draft to replace people. That’s how the league works. 

When Burns signs his new deal we can celebrate together.

 

We have a homegrown star DE. I think we should keep him. We traded enough star talent already. Now you got people on tv saying they can't name a player on our roster because we traded them all. You need stars on your roster.

[KSpan]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Unproven picks are not a guarantee.

 

One of them will be used on a edge rusher to replace Burns.

 

So where are the weapons for Bryce coming from?

Having 2 other high draft picks, assuming 1 is used on a rusher as you say, and an extra $30MM in cap prompts the question of where weapons for the offense are coming from? Seems obvious. The better question is where they are going to come from now if that cap room is gone and with no high draft picks.

Hell, even trading Burns to Chicago instead of DJ and maybe keeping one of those 1st and/or 2nd rounders would have made more sense then the timeline we're currently travelling.