Just speculating... I wouldn't be surprised if Frank or Fitt is fired soon. Very soon.

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Hahaahahaha man you just captured me trying to read wtf is going on in this thread perfectly 

Might help to know CRA has previously admitted that he sometimes defends dumb sh-t just for the hell of it. With how emotional he's gotten on this topic though, it sounds like he really believes it.

I think the bottom line is he wants to use anything possible to criticize Reich. And apparently that even includes things that are borderline irrational.

(like teams lying about who wrote their playbook)

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean for the 100th time.  Thomas Brown did help create it.  So did others.   I mean, that’s projecting an argument I’m not saying.   

Im saying he didn’t build it from the ground up.  Core is and has been Frank Reich’s offense. Brown and  company are adding their tweaks.  Company line can be whatever they want it be on that.  Only this week has it suddenly been some grand issue to call it what it is.   And it has been called that all season.  

My hope continues to be what it was when Frank stepped aside. Which I posted on.  That we start to see more and more McVay being implemented into this thing. 

Because  the Frank Reich approach is going to get Bryce Young hurt.  We don’t have the talent.  Just math.  

So it’s not a 100% Reich offense and Brown wasn’t lying when he says he helped create it. Got it. This conversation/debate should be over then. Also Brown calling plays got Young hit 10 times. He might get hurt no matter who is calling plays behind this OL. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So it’s not a 100% Reich offense and Brown wasn’t lying when he says he helped create it. Got it. This conversation/debate should be over then. Also Brown calling plays got Young hit 10 times. He might get hurt no matter who is calling plays behind this OL. 

I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually know what a Frank Reich offense looks like.

No mention of triangle read concepts or anything more specific than "lots of shotgun" tells me it's a lot of BSing.

[CRA]

40 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yes you are right. The issue I have is people claiming Brown is lying for a PR stunt when he states he helped create the offense. The OC helped the offensive minded HC create an offense catered to their new QB. It’s logical and makes perfect sense. I don’t think Brown is lying his way through his interview on how he helped create this offense. I mean the offense has not been great so why pretend like you helped create it if you didn’t?

I don’t think you really understand where I am coming from.  Or intend to.

You seem to think I am insulting Brown.  Brown and Evero have been the only things about this all star staff I liked.  Which I have long voiced.  

the first good step was getting Frank off playcalling  

the next good step would be Brown moving away from the Frank Reich core O that we heavily opened the year doing.   That Frank was calling.    There is more in the book than that but to deny that’s what we have been doing just seems silly.  

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

I'll throw in that for my part, what I saw the playcalling last game didn't indicate any sort of monumental shift (or even a fundamental shift).

What did seem to make a difference though were some personnel changes. Raheem Blackshear being involved certainly helped. Tommy Tremble did better as the backup tight end than Ian Thomas had. And Chuba Hubbard working is the primary running back was much more effective than an only halfway healthy Miles Sanders.

For that reason, I'd say if you wanted to criticize Frank Reich, looking at the depth chart decisions would make way more sense than talking about who wrote the playbook...especially when you don't really understand the concepts that the offense is based on.

The other thing of course was the plays getting in faster. That and the personnel changes were the primary differences.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[ForJimmy]

35 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don’t think you really understand where I am coming from.  Or intend to.

You seem to think I am insulting Brown.  Brown and Evero have been the only things about this all star staff I liked.  Which I have long voiced.  

the first good step was getting Frank off playcalling  

the next good step would be Brown moving away from the Frank Reich core O that we heavily opened the year doing.   That Frank was calling.    There is more in the book than that but to deny that’s what we have been doing just seems silly.  

 

 

Yes there was no deceit or PR whatever you call it. Brown creating this offense with Reich is exactly what Carolina is putting out. The article I posted is from the team site stating exactly that. So this offense is a Reich AND Brown offense with plenty of input from both people. What did the site say 60 Reich 40 Brown? You were saying it was a complete Reich offense because of shotgun. The shotgun formations are for our 5’10” QB who played nearly strictly out of shotgun in college. 

I’m with you in liking the coordinators better than the HC. I low key want Brown to crush it as our OC and take the HC job with Reich taking some organizational job similar to Arians in Tampa when Brady wanted a different coach. 

[CRA]

41 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yes there was no deceit or PR whatever you call it. Brown creating this offense with Reich is exactly what Carolina is putting out. The article I posted is from the team site stating exactly that. So this offense is a Reich AND Brown offense with plenty of input from both people. What did the site say 60 Reich 40 Brown? You were saying it was a complete Reich offense because of shotgun. The shotgun formations are for our 5’10” QB who played nearly strictly out of shotgun in college. 

I’m with you in liking the coordinators better than the HC. I low key want Brown to crush it as our OC and take the HC job with Reich taking some organizational job similar to Arians in Tampa when Brady wanted a different coach. 

how is that really any different than me saying the core is Frank Reich and Brown and company added their own to it?  It’s just worded different.  And Frank clearly had been calling his signature O.  Maybe when Frank was spewing junk about keeping the offense under wraps all preseason and then doing the exact same stuff when the season started…was a hint at Thomas’ stuff.  But the Panthers came out the gate with the Frank stuff. An  I still dont see that as a controversial take. 

I mean if Thomas Brown himself is saying his playbook was essentially taking 60% of Franks stuff and using that…..and based off what we have seen??  That’s called using Franks core O IMO.  They just don’t word it like that 

 

[Navy_football]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'll throw in that for my part, what I saw the playcalling last game didn't indicate any sort of monumental shift (or even a fundamental shift).

What did seem to make a difference though were some personnel changes. Raheem Blackshear being involved certainly helped. Tommy Tremble did better as the backup tight end than Ian Thomas had. And Chuba Hubbard working is the primary running back was much more effective than an only halfway healthy Miles Sanders.

For that reason, I'd say if you wanted to criticize Frank Reich, looking at the depth chart decisions would make way more sense than talking about who wrote the playbook...especially when you don't really understand the concepts that the offense is based on.

The other thing of course was the plays getting in faster. That and the personnel changes were the primary differences.

I tend to think Reich had a lot of input with getting the right guys in the game. Without the pressure of playcalling, he's allowed to manage every aspect of the game, including personnel changes. My thought is that Reich is better as a HC because he isn't the OC.

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I tend to think Reich had a lot of input with getting the right guys in the game. Without the pressure of playcalling, he's allowed to manage every aspect of the game, including personnel changes. My thought is that Reich is better as a HC because he isn't the OC.

I'm not a fan of head coaches doing double duty in general.

[Loyalty4Life]

Don't know why they would fire him now.  They just won.

[Ricky Spanish]

6 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

WTF is going on in this thread...

Like the title says, we are speculating who wrote the plays for our offense so we can decide who to blame, duh.

[Ricky Spanish]

37 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Don't know why they would fire him now.  They just won.

Tepper's a trader man guy man - sell high or some shit.

[CRA]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Might help to know CRA has previously admitted that he sometimes defends dumb sh-t just for the hell of it. With how emotional he's gotten on this topic though, it sounds like he really believes it.

I think the bottom line is he wants to use anything possible to criticize Reich. And apparently that even includes things that are borderline irrational.

(like teams lying about who wrote their playbook)

lol.  I haven’t been emotional about the Panthers in over a decade boss.   I’m not the one in my feelings with this weird lying claim.  NFL teams paint narratives.  For them team.  Their players.  Their coaches.  Just a fact.  And I’m not even saying that wrong.  I just acknowledge it. 

I simply word things different because I don’t do Panther PR.  Thomas Brown himself and Frank Reich have both acknowledged Frank’s O is in the playbook and it’s no small part.  And the Panthers have proven that on Sundays.  It’s in large part been this offense to open the year.  The one Frank called to our 0-6 start. 

so yeah, I’m not going to word it that Thomas Brown created our O on his own.  I’m definitely not denying we haven’t been running Frank’s O on the year.  The one he called to our 0-6 start.  I’m a Brown guy.  Have been from day 1.   Problem is everything said about whoever is the flavor off the week here is comically defended even when not even attacked….if the company line isn’t maintained.  

Thomas Brown isn’t being insulted lol.  

Frank Reich certainly has been criticized, he has deserved it.   Just like Fitt.  

[WhoKnows]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wrong on several points.

The philosophies in the playbook are meshed, but the plays and the playbook were designed "from the ground up" (per his own words) by Brown. That's like if I wrote a story influenced by the styles of Stephen King, Dean Koontz and John Saul. It might include their motifs, but I still wrote it.

If you look back, you'll see Spanish posted a summary of what the process might have been like, and I agreed. CRA has been trying to characterize that as me saying Reich had no influence on the playbook. That was never what I said, just that Brown is the one who wrote it. But then CRA needed to mischaracterize what I said in order to put his own spin on it otherwise his argument looks even worse than it already does.

Likewise, it's not correct to call me a "huge Scott Fitterer fan" (I get that a lot) when my primary argument has just been that the circumstances don't merit just dismissing him. What I am also quite vehemently against is David Tepper making any more football moves without some kind of outside help, and yes that includes firing anybody currently on staff.

No if you want to see I'm a huge fan of Frank Reich, that I am. I'm also inclined to give him (or anyone) tome to actually make their mark before dismissing them. We're only seven game into his tenure, but apparently people are already talking about his entire career being a bust. That's just dumb.

And yes, acting like you could predict the whole season based on preseason games was dumb too; still is. So is overreading what we had last year with Wilks and not looking into the full context of things.

Unfortunately, this is the way a lot of things on the Huddle seem to go.

SMH. I post the exact text of the article and it’s wrong. Do you actually think Brown created brand new plays for every page of the playbook? This is not some new story as you put it. If you want an analogy that actually fits, this is more like a movie or TV adaptation of a book. Brown isn’t creating the West Coast offense decades ago using only philosophies. He’s creating a playbook “from the ground up” using plays from his time with McVay, plays from Reich and then, they decided on the language of the common plays. It literally states how they melded the common plays where only the language differed.

You can act like you are someone who’s objective but you aren’t. I gave you text from an article that you choose to ignore because it doesn’t fit your argument that we are running a brand new, never seen before offense which helps make Frank’s slow start make more sense. 

Also, I’m pretty sure those of us who were worried about the start of the season due to how we looked in preseason were correct. It’s funny that you are still stubborn when we start 0-6 and things like the OL protection are still an issue that was highlighted as one of the biggest concerns. Was that part of a plan? It’s funny how playoff contention was talked about all offseason and then during the preseason, which didn’t matter of course, all the same talk became of course we aren’t going to contend when every off-season move sure indicated that plan.

Oh well, I think I gave a fairly straightforward reasoning for why both of you could easily be right, but it’s hard to have discussions with you. Your objective posting of news was always appreciated but it’s changed.

Edited November 3, 2023 by WhoKnows