"Bryce Young needs superstars to be successful"

[NAS]

I keep hearing this lame argument. What Bryce Young does need is,  at the very least, have AVERAGE wide receivers and average offensive line protection.  We saw yesterday what he can do given at least a window of opportunity.  The image below is very telling, and you can see the one receive that does get separation he's able to find.  Thielen's separation is below league average and he's able to find him.   He doesn't need Tyreek Hill, maybe just one or two more average receivers who could actually play somewhere else.  Let's face it, not sure that Mingo or TMJ would even make any other rosters at this point.  

Bryce has a lot more developing to do, but what I have seen is extremely encouraging.  He will also be able to throw deep when he gets better protection and receivers.  Right now, he really doesn't have many other options.  And yes, he does have physical tools to play in the NFL, and I think those will shine more and more as he gets experience.   There's a lot to be angry about with this team but Bryce Young is going to be a very good QB in this league.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by NAS

[PleaseCutStewart]

Yeah, Tyreek and Waddle are very good. That being said, they were also being covered by our terrible secondary also. I'm pretty sure a lineman at WR would have 3 yards of separation against our DBs.

[Varking]

2 hours ago, NAS said:

I keep hearing this lame argument. What Bryce Young does need is,  at the very least, have AVERAGE wide receivers and average offensive line protection.  We saw yesterday what he can do given at least a window of opportunity.  The image below is very telling, and you can see the one receive that does get separation he's able to find.  Thielen's separation is below league average and he's able to find him.   He doesn't need Tyreek Hill, maybe just one or two more average receivers who could actually play somewhere else.  Let's face it, not sure that Mingo or TMJ would even make any other rosters at this point.  

Bryce has a lot more developing to do, but what I have seen is extremely encouraging.  He will also be able to throw deep when he gets better protection and receivers.  Right now, he really doesn't have many other options.  And yes, he does have physical tools to play in the NFL, and I think those will shine more and more as he gets experience.   There's a lot to be angry about with this team but Bryce Young is going to be a very good QB in this league.

 

 

 

I’ll say anything over 2 yards of separation is NFL open. Could they be more open? Absolutely. But this is more than open enough to complete passes. 

[NAS]

1 minute ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Yeah, Tyreek and Waddle are very good. That being said, they were also being covered by our terrible secondary also. I'm pretty sure a lineman at WR would have 3 yards of separation against our DBs.

True.  I'm specifically focused on the 2.94 league average which we're well below.  

[CRA]

We do have average WRs.  The Dolphins don't.  The Phins don't even have above average.  They have top tier WRs.   So the contrast is going to be big.  

and yeah, Bryce needs elite weapons.  Because he himself doesn't have elite NFL tools. 

[NAS]

Just now, Varking said:

I’ll say anything over 2 yards of separation is NFL open. Could they be more open? Absolutely. But this is more than open enough to complete passes. 

All things being equal which is why I also think you need adequate protection 

[NAS]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

We do have average WRs.  The Dolphins don't.  The Phins don't even have above average.  They have top tier WRs.   So the contrast is going to be big.  

and yeah, Bryce needs elite weapons.  Because he himself doesn't have elite NFL tools. 

The rest of the league average sepearation is 2.94.  Our top receiver was at 2.35 when he balled out.  So yeah, they're not even average as a unit.  

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, NAS said:

The rest of the league average sepearation is 2.94.  Our top receiver was at 2.35 when he balled out.  So yeah, they're not even average as a unit.  

yeah, I think the difference there is just playcalling/scheme.  NFL teams largely know the predictable routes we are running over and over.  Makes separation harder.  We do have average WRs.  But life is hard on them because they run the same weak ass crossing routes and outs all game and defense can largely run the routes with them. 

you can't win in the NFL with an opponent knowing what you are doing.  You need comical better talent for the try and stop us approach.  Which is the Frank/Bryce O.  Defenses have been playing it since week 1.  Average WRs are going to have a hard time playing the small ball cross game vs a D playing it. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

We do have average WRs.  The Dolphins don't.  The Phins don't even have above average.  They have top tier WRs.   So the contrast is going to be big.  

and yeah, Bryce needs elite weapons.  Because he himself doesn't have elite NFL tools. 

So which QBs don't need elite weapons?  Tua, Burrow, Purdy, and Hurts have the best cast around them plus some great coaching.  Stroud is making it work with below average weapons, but a lot of the great ones have elite talent around them.  Outside of AT (who is a 2 or 3 on most teams) we have below average weapons and an OL that is playing terrible.  I want to see Young with a solid OL and actual average weapons with solid coaching. A rookie with a bad OL, below average weapons, and a below average HC isn't going to look very good a majority of the time IMO.  

[NAS]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, I think the difference there is just playcalling/scheme.  NFL teams largely know the predictable routes we are running over and over.  Makes separation harder.  We do have average WRs.  But life is hard on them because they run the same weak ass crossing routes and outs all game and defense can largely run the routes with them. 

you can't win in the NFL with an opponent knowing what you are doing.  You need comical better talent for the try and stop us approach.  Which is the Frank/Bryce O.  Defenses have been playing it since week 1.  Average WRs are going to have a hard time playing the small ball cross game vs a D playing it. 

It's the perfect sh*tstorm

1. Bad scheme

2. Poor offensive line play

3.  No true #1 WR 

 

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So which QBs don't need elite weapons?  Tua, Burrow, Purdy, and Hurts have the best cast around them plus some great coaching.  Stroud is making it work with below average weapons, but a lot of the great ones have elite talent around them.  Outside of AT (who is a 2 or 3 on most teams) we have below average weapons and an OL that is playing terrible.  I want to see Young with a solid OL and actual average weapons with solid coaching. A rookie with a bad OL, below average weapons, and a below average HC isn't going to look very good a majority of the time IMO.  

Most need them.  A prime Cam, Lamar, Vick type can win without them.   The more untraditional types. 

and then the elite GOAT types QBs can win without them.  Like a prime Tom Brady, Rodgers could likely win games without superstars.  But in the NFL, most need them. 

and that's just winning games.  Not competing to do something special. 

The argument a rookie Bryce Young of all people didn't or doesn't need them is a comical farce IMO.  Which was pointed out by many leading into this season when people were pimping this Panther PR about how it was going to work to our advantage somehow lol. 

[OldhamA]

14 minutes ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Yeah, Tyreek and Waddle are very good. That being said, they were also being covered by our terrible secondary also. I'm pretty sure a lineman at WR would have 3 yards of separation against our DBs.

They're both top 10 WRs in the NFL - frustratingly they're on the same bloody team.

That (and a play calling genius) is what was required to turn Tua into a serviceable QB - it's not really the path I want to go down, there's too many moving parts to get there.

[MechaZain]

Feels like the circular debates over Cam's passing stats all over again. People zeroing in on below average completion % and QBR without any context.

[GoobyPls]

Yesterday wasn’t on the WR, even on the completed passes Bryce was getting hit. He had no time to go trough his progressions, on that Chark deep pass he couldn’t step into the throw cause there was a guy right there