DJ Moore’s 2 cents

[OneBadCat]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

89 averaged 5 TDs per year in the NFL.  The point was merely TDs aren’t the end all be all for a WR. 

Moore and 89 played for teams that believed in running the football in when you got close.  Just running period. 

and even if you cherry pick out 89’s rookie year and the year broke his leg….he still just averaged 5 TDs per year in the NFL. 

DJ Moore is without question a #1.  He has finished top 11 in 4 out of his 6 years in yards.   One of those he didn’t was his rookie year.   If DJ Moore isn’t a #1 then in reality there are less than 10 in the NFL by that skewed framework

I agree with your sentiment about Moore but Smitty is without question a better player.

Smith’s peak is only eclipsed by TO, Moss, CJ,  and AB. 

Edited January 9, 2024 by OneBadCat

[BY9Franchise]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

89 averaged 5 TDs per year in the NFL.  The point was merely TDs aren’t the end all be all for a WR. 

Moore and 89 played for teams that believed in running the football in when you got close.  Just running period. 

and even if you cherry pick out 89’s rookie year and the year broke his leg….he still just averaged 5 TDs per year in the NFL. 

DJ Moore is without question a #1.  He has finished top 11 in 4 out of his 6 years in yards.   One of those he didn’t was his rookie year.   If DJ Moore isn’t a #1 then in reality there are less than 10 in the NFL by that skewed framework

Sure if you include the 04' season he played 1 quarter in and his PR rookie season in which he played 5 offensive snaps

[csx]

Just now, BY9Franchise said:

Sure if you include the 04' season he played 1 quarter in and his PR rookie season in which he played 5 offensive snaps

Removing those  2 years boosts the average to 5.8 tds per season 

[ColumbusCounty]

Quiet and humble guy but he is definitely a #1 receiver. A lack of TDs just kept him from making the Pro Bowl. Its almost like saying Brown is a Jag because his sack numbers arent crazy. 

In 3 years Fitterer (with the Tepp's help) got rid of CMC, DJ + 2 first rounders(1 was swap) and 2 second rounders. And this was after turning down 2 1sts and a 2nd for Burns. Hell he couldn't get a deal done and still turned down every offer this season too.   

In hindsight...IF we would have traded Burns to LA and not traded up to #1 we would have probably wound up with Dalton throwing to Thielen and DJ Moore along with 4 firsts and two 2nds between the '23 and '24 draft.

I will miss his aggressiveness in making moves though. He just made the wrong choice on about 8 out of 10 situations. 

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Meh. 

If I hated him so much, I wouldn't have drafted him in fantasy football the last couple of years. 

Furthermore, you can say what you want, but it's all a matter of definition, and it always was. Some of y'all throw the #1 label around so casually, I guess there are 20 in the league. 

Some receivers like Moore need help to maximize their impact. Some guys, like Smitty, make their impact felt regardless. Double team, even triple team him, he still ate. You will never say that about Moore. Good, not great, does not equal hate, it just means my expectations are higher than yours.

[frankw]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Meh. 

If I hated him so much, I wouldn't have drafted him in fantasy football the last couple of years. 

Furthermore, you can say what you want, but it's all a matter of definition, and it always was. Some of y'all throw the #1 label around so casually, I guess there are 20 in the league. 

Some receivers like Moore need help to maximize their impact. Some guys, like Smitty, make their impact felt regardless. Double team, even triple team him, he still ate. You will never say that about Moore. Good, not great, does not equal hate, it just means my expectations are higher than yours.

If your expectations are another WR in the mold of Steve Smith you'll be waiting a long time. Most of these new young guys simply aren't built that way. Social media doesn't help either. I think your ego won't let you acknowledge you misjudged. Ohwell.

[top dawg]

20 minutes ago, frankw said:

If your expectations are another WR in the mold of Steve Smith you'll be waiting a long time. Most of these new young guys simply aren't built that way. Social media doesn't help either. I think your ego won't let you acknowledge you misjudged. Ohwell.

Ain't got anything to do with ego. There are young receivers who thrive double-team or not. Moore just ain't one of them whether you, or anyone, admit the truth or not. Moore needs help, and always has, whether you, or anyone, admits the truth or not. And Moore is still not the route runner that superior receivers have been, whether you, or any Huddler, admits it or not. These truths do not make him an invaluable receiver, but it does mean that Jefferson, Chase, Hill, prime Kupp, prime OBJ, Smitty (prime or not), Andre Johnson, prime Mike Evans, prime Nuk, Antonio Brown...he's not. 

[Davidson Deac II]

23 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Ain't got anything to do with ego. There are young receivers who thrive double-team or not. Moore just ain't one of them whether you, or anyone, admit the truth or not. Moore needs help

I agree.

He needs help from a qb that can actually throw the ball consistently well.  

[csx]

23 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Ain't got anything to do with ego. There are young receivers who thrive double-team or not. Moore just ain't one of them whether you, or anyone, admit the truth or not. Moore needs help, and always has, whether you, or anyone, admits the truth or not. And Moore is still not the route runner that superior receivers have been, whether you, or any Huddler, admits it or not. These truths do not make him an invaluable receiver, but it does mean that Jefferson, Chase, Hill, prime Kupp, prime OBJ, Smitty (prime or not), Andre Johnson, prime Mike Evans, prime Nuk, Antonio Brown...he's not. 

You have changed the definition of #1 receiver to one only you are using.

 

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, csx said:

You have changed the definition of #1 receiver to one only you are using.

 

 

Not true. There are plenty of people who think that there are only a handful of true ones in the league,. There are also people that consider the main receiver on a team a "one." Like I explained in my reply, it's all a matter of definition. But there aren't true WR1s just falling off trees. Moore is not a true WR1 in my opinion, and likely others' opinions also. Moore has been a good to very good receiver in spots, but has never been in the top echelon of receivers during his time in the league, or in league history.

 

"Every team has a WR1, but there are only about six to eight true number 1 wide receivers in the NFL at any given time – and it looks like the Jaguars have one of them."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/08/18/jacksonville-jaguars-wide-receiver-calvin-ridley/amp/

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"I was listening to The Ringer NFL podcast and Mike Lombardi claims there are only 3-4 true #1 guys as receiving threats."

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Over the past few months, I’ve asked coaches and evaluators around the NFL what makes a true No. 1 wideout in their minds. Some of their answers were as nuanced as the receivers themselves, but their input provided a framework for categorizing the top wideouts.

“A No. 1 receiver to me is someone who can take over a game, someone you need to double-cover the whole game,” a general manager said. “Like Julio, you have to have a safety over him the whole game, and the minute you don’t, he is going to run by you and take it to the house.”

Another GM thought true No. 1 receivers should be able to win matchups on the perimeter while showing enough versatility to play effectively from the slot as well. “He has very good speed, at least,” this GM said. “Not necessarily always size, but the athletic ability and explosiveness to change a game.”

And a third GM said true No. 1 receivers must be able to beat zone or man coverage.

“To be a No. 1,” this GM added, “you have to be able to make contested catches because we have to be able to throw the ball to you when everybody knows it’s coming.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/1262373/2019/10/09/who-are-the-nfls-true-no-1-receivers-coaches-and-evaluators-weigh-in/%3famp=1

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There are other articles and other opinions, but suffice it to say that the bar for a true WR1 is generally higher, not lower, for NFL types, while fans on message boards can be more generous and inclusive of second tier guys.

[Car123]

8 hours ago, t96 said:

Ehh I disagree. Julio Jones was a notoriously terrible TD and red zone guy yet he was not only a #1 but one of the best weapons in the league period and demanded a ton of defense’s attention. Moore is a low end #1, probably a top 15 WR.

He’s top 7.

[CRA]

12 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

I agree with your sentiment about Moore but Smitty is without question a better player.

Smith’s peak is only eclipsed by TO, Moss, CJ,  and AB. 

yeah, but there was also no comparison being made of the two.  89 merely used as an example (Julio was another).....that TDs have never been used as the signature mark around here for what makes a 1 a 1.  People are just doing it with DJ. 

post rookie season, DJ Moore has finished top 11 in yards in 4 out of his 5 seasons.  That's a 1.   And that not with him being abnormally targeted. 

[CRA]

12 hours ago, BY9Franchise said:

Sure if you include the 04' season he played 1 quarter in and his PR rookie season in which he played 5 offensive snaps

I mean, in the post you quoted.....I gave his numbers excluding those 2 seasons.  It doesn't change things.  He still just averaged 5 a season wiping those from existence.    And he is a HOF GOAT here.  But DJ Moore somehow isn't 1 because of TDs. 

[BY9Franchise]

27 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, in the post you quoted.....I gave his numbers excluding those 2 seasons.  It doesn't change things.  He still just averaged 5 a season wiping those from existence.    And he is a HOF GOAT here.  But DJ Moore somehow isn't 1 because of TDs. 

I disagree about DJ, he's put up consistent numbers with a rotating door of crap at QB.

I'm not sure he has the outsized effect on the game Prime Smitty did though you have to remember that man was tripled every play for five seasons.... we had no other real threats.p