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Canales on evaluating roster: "I have the benefit of not having an emotional connection"

rayzor

By rayzor,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Morgan also went to Seattle with Beane who turned their franchise around.  They didn't really follow the Seattle blueprint (huge raw QB who they molded and trading for a top WR to help him grow, never really got a good running game with their RBs). 

People like to compare Young to Wilson because they are both short, but honestly Seattle got lucky with Wilson in round 3, they had traded for Flynn for that to be their guy.  Young and Russ also have two pretty different playing styles.  Canales talking about the offense he wants to run seemed similar to the one he just ran in Tampa.  He was just speaking basics IMO.  Yeah PA, running game, and bootlegs helps take pressure of the QB especially with a bad OL.   

8 years vs 3.  Morgan's career and advancement in a front office was Seattle.  Seattle is also where he really saw an organization thrive and reach NFL heights.  Fitterer also talked about it a lot.  Maybe Dan will be great.  Maybe being not paired w/ Fitterer will make a huge difference.  I need some proof in the pudding though for a start fanboying this move. 

I think the Seattle influence in our front office has lead to a lot of mistakes.  And you are right, they got lucky with Wilson.  They also got lucky with there big physical corners.  Richard Sherman wasn't a top 10 pick on a team that had nothing. 

 

 

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Ricky Spanish Grand Master

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One thing I find encouraging at least, and what is different from Rhule and Reich, is that he isn't coming in here with the expectations that the players will adjust to his scheme or his process will fix everything. He is evaluating everyone, looking at their strengths and weaknesses, trying to determine what the players can actually do, and then trying to adjust his scheme around that.

Pretty refreshing honestly. Evero mentioned doing it previously and we saw that he did exactly that, his schemes and tendencies changed as the year went on based on the personnel he had available due to injuries throughout the season. Defense was never great, but they were servicable with a bunch of JAGs at starting spots through different stretches of the year, and that shows the coach can maximize the talent he has. Cannales comes off as having the same mindset.

Again, encouraging, but we do need to see some actual results.

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CRA Grand Master

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3 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

One thing I find encouraging at least, and what is different from Rhule and Reich, is that he isn't coming in here with the expectations that the players will adjust to his scheme or his process will fix everything. He is evaluating everyone, looking at their strengths and weaknesses, trying to determine what the players can actually do, and then trying to adjust his scheme around that.

Pretty refreshing honestly. Evero mentioned doing it previously and we saw that he did exactly that, his schemes and tendencies changed as the year went on based on the personnel he had available due to injuries throughout the season. Defense was never great, but they were servicable with a bunch of JAGs at starting spots through different stretches of the year, and that shows the coach can maximize the talent he has. Cannales comes off as having the same mindset.

Again, encouraging, but we do need to see some actual results.

well, I know I am often Debbie Downer coming into most seasons.  But I will say, Cannales is a more inspiring hire than Rhule or Frank were at the time. 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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6 minutes ago, CRA said:

8 years vs 3.  Morgan's career and advancement in a front office was Seattle.  Seattle is also where he really saw an organization thrive and reach NFL heights.  Fitterer also talked about it a lot.  Maybe Dan will be great.  Maybe being not paired w/ Fitterer will make a huge difference.  I need some proof in the pudding though for a start fanboying this move. 

I think the Seattle influence in our front office has lead to a lot of mistakes.  And you are right, they got lucky with Wilson.  They also got lucky with there big physical corners.  Richard Sherman wasn't a top 10 pick on a team that had nothing. 

 

 

I don’t think anyone is “fanboying” him lol. It’s more of “give him a chance” vs “he will be terrible because he worked with Fitt.” Remember Beane learned under Hurney and all his blunders. 
Like I said if nothing else he has seen successful and non successful franchises be ran. Hopefully he can know what the difference was. 

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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15 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

One thing I find encouraging at least, and what is different from Rhule and Reich, is that he isn't coming in here with the expectations that the players will adjust to his scheme or his process will fix everything. He is evaluating everyone, looking at their strengths and weaknesses, trying to determine what the players can actually do, and then trying to adjust his scheme around that.

Pretty refreshing honestly. Evero mentioned doing it previously and we saw that he did exactly that, his schemes and tendencies changed as the year went on based on the personnel he had available due to injuries throughout the season. Defense was never great, but they were servicable with a bunch of JAGs at starting spots through different stretches of the year, and that shows the coach can maximize the talent he has. Cannales comes off as having the same mindset.

Again, encouraging, but we do need to see some actual results.

100%. I know it's just words, but the messages have been different from what we've gotten from previous regimes. Canales' philosophies are not in alignment with what we have seen here since ???? 

even with reich and brown creating their bastardized version haphazardly created scheme didn't really take into account who we had. they just tried to create something that neither of them had done and hoped that everyone would fit into it. 

we really haven't had anyone since probably henning scheme anything based on who we had here. chud didn't even pay attention to who was on the field when he was calling out plays. 

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CRA Grand Master

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13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I don’t think anyone is “fanboying” him lol. It’s more of “give him a chance” vs “he will be terrible because he worked with Fitt.” Remember Beane learned under Hurney and all his blunders. 
Like I said if nothing else he has seen successful and non successful franchises be ran. Hopefully he can know what the difference was. 

I personally think the best GMing in Carolina was pre lockout talk Marty Hurney.  Then Jerry IMO made him fug up contracts and Marty never recovered as a GM.  Got worse and worse.  Maybe he was always going to struggle there and the lockout talk, Jerry directions, etc  didn't matter, and his path was always going to be his path.  But I always wonder about that. 

none of that is relevant.  But it's just a lingering thought not worthy of putting anywhere else. 

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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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The big difference with Morgan vs. his predecessors is that at his first press conference he didn’t hesitate to openly criticized the current roster, talking about the lack of the player type we need etc. That on its own gives me hope and makes me wonder how much actual input he had under Fitt.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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26 minutes ago, CRA said:

I personally think the best GMing in Carolina was pre lockout talk Marty Hurney.  Then Jerry IMO made him fug up contracts and Marty never recovered as a GM.  Got worse and worse.  Maybe he was always going to struggle there and the lockout talk, Jerry directions, etc  didn't matter, and his path was always going to be his path.  But I always wonder about that. 

none of that is relevant.  But it's just a lingering thought not worthy of putting anywhere else. 

i don't know about hurney there...at least not in the draft. once he made that double dip in the first trade for otah in '08 he got himself in a gambling hole inspired by his old mentor bobby beathard that traded up for ryan leaf. we kept trading away firsts after that.

that said, he's still probably the best one that we've had. bar not quite high there.

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CRA Grand Master

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6 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i don't know about hurney there...at least not in the draft. once he made that double dip in the first trade for otah in '08 he got himself in a gambling hole inspired by his old mentor bobby beathard that traded up for ryan leaf. we kept trading away firsts after that.

that said, he's still probably the best one that we've had. bar not quite high there.

I was just highlighting pre-lockout talk Hurney.  That tiny window.  I thought that was pretty dang good.  Post lockout talk Hurney was always more bad than good stuff.  

but there was a window where I thought his drafting, FA moves/attempts and no contract messes were pretty dang solid.  Then came lockout talk and Mr. Look at this pie chart Jerry and it was all downhill for Hurney for whatever reason. 

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Khaki Lackey Mentor

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32 minutes ago, rayzor said:

 

even with reich and brown creating their bastardized version haphazardly created scheme didn't really take into account who we had. they just tried to create something that neither of them had done and hoped that everyone would fit into it. 

we really haven't had anyone since probably henning scheme anything based on who we had here. chud didn't even pay attention to who was on the field when he was calling out plays. 

Who we have here is the worst roster in the NFL. I don't think pandering to our awful roster is a pattern for success. I wouldn't expect Andy Reid to come here and run a 1980s power run scheme because of all of our crappy drafting. It's going to take some time for the personnel and scheme to align, unless we want to go full Wilks because our OLine sucks.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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4 minutes ago, CRA said:

I was just highlighting pre-lockout talk Hurney.  That tiny window.  I thought that was pretty dang good.  Post lockout talk Hurney was always more bad than good stuff.  

but there was a window where I thought his drafting, FA moves/attempts and no contract messes were pretty dang solid.  Then came lockout talk and Mr. Look at this pie chart Jerry and it was all downhill for Hurney for whatever reason. 

post-lockout jerry i think was the bigger problem. for years you never really heard from him. then the lock out came and the guy went full on narcissist. 

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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13 minutes ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Who we have here is the worst roster in the NFL. I don't think pandering to our awful roster is a pattern for success. I wouldn't expect Andy Reid to come here and run a 1980s power run scheme because of all of our crappy drafting. It's going to take some time for the personnel and scheme to align, unless we want to go full Wilks because our OLine sucks.

i'm thinking/hoping/praying that 2 things happen.

1) after evaluating the roster they get rid of the bums and then replace as many as they can with the type player "dawg" they are looking for and then fill out the rest of the roster with FAs that fit that mold 

we should have a core, of sorts, to work with and build around and from that they should be able to

2) build a scheme based on who we have on the roster. one that takes advantage of whatever strengths they can find and takes into consideration their limitations. 

part of me just wants to scrap the whole roster and start over, but that's just the emotional part of me. i understand that most of this team we saw last year will be most of who we have next year. hopefully with a few subtractions and a few additions we'll have something to build on that isn't miserable to watch.

i think that's what my ceiling is set at...just don't make it miserable to watch. 

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