Fitterer vs. Morgan

[strato]

 

35 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Sorry, but Morgan never got to Luke’s level.

Luke is way up there for me. I must have edited or bumped off where I said Luke was all time elite and even a couple of ticks down from that is still a very high level. It was something like that.

Haven’t thought about Morgan as a player for a long timeIt is coming back to me a little. Number one, he was a fierce competitor. IMO Morgan is a for sure hall of very good if he had had health and some longevity. He had that level of game. He wasn’t Luke but go find another.

Luke reminds me of Greg Maddux, football version. Not the most physically gifted but more than made up for whatever the perceived shortcomings with knowledge and cunning.

I saw that Dallas Thanksgiving game in 2015 recently. [grin] If anybody wants a pick me up, you don’t have to wait long for the good part.

Edited March 16 by strato

[Castavar]

I was pretty neutral when Morgan was announced as our GM.

However, the one thing I love the most about Morgan compared to Fitterer is that he actually played in the NFL and knows what to look for in players since he saw it first hand. Which is a huge reason why I think he went after two big time guards to start FA because Dan of all people knows how vital good guard play is.

But I'm not going to judge until I see it in action come regular season. You see how it's played out the last 5 years. I'm just hoping the Teppers learned their lesson and stay far away from football opertaions. If not, then it really doesn't even matter who is GM tbh

[Gregg S]

26 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Morgan didn’t wait so long on the Burns trade that he got bent over. If he did the trade the day he was promoted to GM he wouldn’t have had any more leverage than he did when he traded him. Once Fitterer declined the Rams’ offer, all the leverage was in Burns’ hands and everyone knew it. 

Especially after Burns admitted to playing not to get hurt.  What GM worth a poo is going to give you more than Dan got out of the Giants for a player that would do that or even say they did it?  He did get a hefty contract from the Giants after the trade, but the trade value just wasn't there. 

[Captroop]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

The thing, though, that Fitt did incredibly well was make draft day trades that first year. That was fun to watch. He just didn't have the right set of goggles to choose the best players. At the time analytics was all the rage so we jumped in. I jumped in. It was just a phase and I think we've all just realized that there's nothing like trusting the eyes of people who truly know the game.

This. Fitt was an incredible dealer. I can't remember a GM we had that was so savvy working the phones. He seriously could take a fifth round pick and turn it into a third in a couple moves. Masterful. But he just could not translate those moves into successful players. All these incredible deals, and he produced absolutely dog poo out of them. I was initially onboard with keeping Fitt, but stripping all talent responsibilities away from him. 

Happy we've moved on. I'm likewise souring on analytics. This ain't Moneyball. You still need the old heads to look at a prospect and determine exactly how much dawg he's got in him. 

[Zen24]

2 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Again, I recall you telling us how good Elflein and/or Erving were when Fitterer signed them. There’s a lot more we need to see and I am still hearing the same stuff like Morgan/Fitterer has filled every hole so we can go BPA and talking up guys who aren’t additions like Tyreke Hill or AJ Brown. We had posts in here about why Teddy was going to go for 4000-30.

Also, Morgan was not elite. Luke was elite. John Lynch was elite. Ozzie Newsome was elite. Matt Millen was even a good player who won 4 SBs, which I didn’t know, but only two as a key cog. I’m not saying Morgan will be as bad as Millen but just because you were a good player, it doesn’t mean anything on your eye for talent. So far, I haven’t seen anything from anyone associated with Fitterer’s crew that should be given any benefit of the doubt until we see actual results.

Morgan was elite.  25 tackles is the SB.  Was he a HOF like Luke, Lewis, Urlacher, and Lynch?  no

 

[Zen24]

i want to like what we are doing right now.  i certainly like Morgan/Canales compared to the last two groups of goons.  Ive been beat down so badly with this terrible organization that i will have to see results before I get excited.  

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

I have no doubt that Scott is a smart football guy.  I just don't think that Scott has the same leadership traits that Dan has.  Scott's approach of building consensus was great in concept.  It's how a lot of hard things are done.  The main difference is that Scott came in under Rhule, and his only coach he hired blew up in EVERYONE's face.  Scott was trying to make everyone happy.

One thing I'll say about Dan Morgan is that he's well respect in the league.  There's a difference in the inflection when people talk about Dan Morgan respect versus general respect.  For Morgan, it was always a matter of when he became a GM, not an IF.  

Conversely, since Dan was hired, he brought in Dave, and D&D (oh how I love that moniker =P) are aligned (take your shot).  So there is a clear plan in place.  I'm not saying that the 2024 Panthers are going to be world beaters, but they should be MUCH better than 2 wins.  How many actual wins?  4?  6?  Push to 7?  Who knows?  But since D&D are in ALIGNMENT (take your shot), the team will look different, and should ideally work better.

There's my hopium in mid March.  We'll see what happens.  It could all blow up again.  We'll have to see.  I'm excited though.  D&D seem like they have a plan, now let's see what the execution looks like.

Sorry, but Fitterer was a horrible GM and I’d put him up for the worst GM ever. What single thing made you think he was a smart football guy? I’d say he has to be the worst talent evaluator ever. Gettleman and Hurney ran circles around him. If he’s trying to make people happy, it’s because he isn’t a smart football guy who can make good decisions.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

Sorry, but Fitterer was a horrible GM and I’d put him up for the worst GM ever. What single thing made you think he was a smart football guy? I’d say he has to be the worst talent evaluator ever. Gettleman and Hurney ran circles around him. If he’s trying to make people happy, it’s because he isn’t a smart football guy who can make good decisions.

Fitterer was so unquestionably the worst GM this franchise has ever had and that is considering Dave Gettleman and Marty Hurney were employed here at one point.

[WhoKnows]

46 minutes ago, Captroop said:

This. Fitt was an incredible dealer. I can't remember a GM we had that was so savvy working the phones. He seriously could take a fifth round pick and turn it into a third in a couple moves. Masterful. But he just could not translate those moves into successful players. All these incredible deals, and he produced absolutely dog poo out of them. I was initially onboard with keeping Fitt, but stripping all talent responsibilities away from him. 

Happy we've moved on. I'm likewise souring on analytics. This ain't Moneyball. You still need the old heads to look at a prospect and determine exactly how much dawg he's got in him. 

What? You guys are crazy. Just because he made trades doesn’t mean he was good at them. It’s almost like the Stockholm syndrome in here.

Who won the Young trade?

Who won the Darnold trade?

Who won the CJ Henderson trade?

Who won the Burns trade (Rams)?

Who won the CMC trade?

Please point to where he turned a 5th into a 3rd. All I saw was that we dropped down and when we moved up we usually lost a bit of value.

[rayzor]

41 minutes ago, Zen24 said:

Morgan was elite.  25 tackles is the SB.  Was he a HOF like Luke, Lewis, Urlacher, and Lynch?  no

 

This. He was elite. One of the best of his era. Not necessarily HoF level, but still elite at a time where the MLB was more of a premium position.

But I guess it all depends on someone's standards as elite. To me, you can be among the very best at your position in your era, but still not quite be good enough for the HoF. That's just a higher bar.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

Cautious optimism would be my overall impression. As OP said you can’t jump the gun and judge overall results but the moves do seem to suggest a plan. 

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Morgan didn’t wait so long on the Burns trade that he got bent over. If he did the trade the day he was promoted to GM he wouldn’t have had any more leverage than he did when he traded him. Once Fitterer declined the Rams’ offer, all the leverage was in Burns’ hands and everyone knew it. 

I agree with you. The leverage was lost the day after we turned down the trade. I always said that I could have accepted the extension but it should have been done at the time of the trade. Hey Burns, this is the extension we are good with and if he balks, you take a crazy valued trade. Turning down the trade and getting fired a year later and still not being able to sign Burns is why Fitterer won’t be a GM again.

I was replying to someone who said we had to make the trade that day to afford the two guards. If that was true and we didn’t restructure Moton, which easily could have covered year 1 cap space, then Dan made a bad move.

[WhoKnows]

5 minutes ago, rayzor said:

This. He was elite. One of the best of his era. Not necessarily HoF level, but still elite at a time where the MLB was more of a premium position.

But I guess it all depends on someone's standards as elite. To me, you can be among the very best at your position in your era, but still not quite be good enough for the HoF. That's just a higher bar.

He made one pro bowl. He was not elite IMHO. You aren’t the very best in your era and not make an all pro team. Lewis was a 12 time pro bowler and 7 time all-pro. Luke made the all-pro team every year of his career.

There are lots of guys who have had great SB games. Kong Ealy was our best guy in the last SB.

To be elite and best of an era, you’d be considered borderline HOF, i.e. next tier. 1 pro bowl isn’t close to either of those. He was very good and had injury issues but he wasn’t elite in my book.

[CRA]

In real time last year….many people here were crediting Fitterer for putting together a roster that was better than the 2011 or 2003 one.   

this is the honeymoon window of any season.

you can sell it either way….as a great new era change or a predictable bad  Panthers about to repeat