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Anyone know which DEs we are still entertaining?


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Looking at PFF there are still serviceable (starters) players to be had at the position for 5-10 mil per.  Still very nervous about what we are doing there. Draft picks at edge always seem to take longer, even Burns did. So I hope that's not the plan to just depend on the draft. 

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Just to be clear (because I do the same thing) you are referring to edge or the 3-4 rush OLB, correct?  To me, there is nothing there, short of overpaying Clowney.  I know Clowney had a good season last year, but he was on a winning team with a lot of support.  Here, he would not have as much support and he would not win as much.  I am afraid we'd be paying for performance in Baltimore and not Carolina. 

We now have Wonnum on the Strong side and he is mediocre.  We have an interesting choice in Chaisson on the Rush Edge side and he was out of position before--maybe he will return to first round pick status here.  I am cautiously optimistic.  We have Barno who played well at times and I think would improve in year 3.  Beyond that,  Johnson has underwhelmed and Leota has been below average, but he was an underafted rookie. 

I hope this is not seen as an attempt to derail your thread.  It is a good topic on its own.  I simply think the option to finding a free agent starter is to develop what you have and draft a player.  I have been researching this when you posted this, so I thought I'd share where my mind is right now:

If you look long term and at the cap, considering we are likely not going to make the playoffs, use the year to draft and develop an edge. Develop Chaisson (first round talent) and Barno, two players who have skills but lack technique, to overly simplify.

In the draft, I like the following players (note that not all players on the list are 3-4 rush OLBs like Burns was--that is what we need):

1. Chop Robinson (he could fall to the Panthers, but it is highly unlikely. pick #33)

2.  Bralen Trice (pick #65 if available) Was slow 4.72 40 but his college productivity shows 7 sacks and nearly 50 tackles.  To me, that suggests he has the potential to be effective vs the run and get pressure on the QB)

3.  Jonah Ellis (pick 65) Productive in college with 12 sacks, but his 3 passes defended suggests that he is in the face of the QB quite a bit.  I see him as a rotational player in the NFL, not a starter.

4. Austiin Booker (pick 65) He is my favorite and a value for the third round.  56 tackles and 8 sacks w/ 2 forced fumbles. He, like Bralen Trice, ran a slowish 4.79 40 but they had as many tackles as the top 3-4 OLBs and they had as many sacks, on average.

NOTE:  I like 2 others, but they played opposite studs.  Chris Braswell has a great motor but his physical makeup is questionable for an elite edge. I would seriously consider him at #39--based on the "Dawg" factor alone.  He played opposite Dallas Turner, so how many sacks were due to protecting the other side or pressure forcing the QB into Braswell's lap?  Braswell ran a 4.6 if that matters.

Adisa Isaac played opposite Chop Robinson, and he too has a high motor.He ran a 4.74 at the combine, so I have to think that the 40 times for Booker, Trice, and Isaac are based on 40 times--which means very little. It does measure, however, the takeoff and release. 

So I guess my point?  If you are building a program, develop some youth at $2m per season as opposed to paying a journeyman $8m for a rental season.

image.thumb.png.1f0dfb5562bcd55d4be8dc284a0bf2b1.png

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Just to be clear (because I do the same thing) you are referring to edge or the 3-4 rush OLB, correct?  To me, there is nothing there, short of overpaying Clowney.  I know Clowney had a good season last year, but he was on a winning team with a lot of support.  Here, he would not have as much support and he would not win as much.  I am afraid we'd be paying for performance in Baltimore and not Carolina. 

We now have Wonnum on the Strong side and he is mediocre.  We have an interesting choice in Chaisson on the Rush Edge side and he was out of position before--maybe he will return to first round pick status here.  I am cautiously optimistic.  We have Barno who played well at times and I think would improve in year 3.  Beyond that,  Johnson has underwhelmed and Leota has been below average, but he was an underafted rookie. 

I hope this is not seen as an attempt to derail your thread.  It is a good topic on its own.  I simply think the option to finding a free agent starter is to develop what you have and draft a player.  I have been researching this when you posted this, so I thought I'd share where my mind is right now:

If you look long term and at the cap, considering we are likely not going to make the playoffs, use the year to draft and develop an edge. Develop Chaisson (first round talent) and Barno, two players who have skills but lack technique, to overly simplify.

In the draft, I like the following players (note that not all players on the list are 3-4 rush OLBs like Burns was--that is what we need):

1. Chop Robinson (he could fall to the Panthers, but it is highly unlikely. pick #33)

2.  Bralen Trice (pick #65 if available) Was slow 4.72 40 but his college productivity shows 7 sacks and nearly 50 tackles.  To me, that suggests he has the potential to be effective vs the run and get pressure on the QB)

3.  Jonah Ellis (pick 65) Productive in college with 12 sacks, but his 3 passes defended suggests that he is in the face of the QB quite a bit.  I see him as a rotational player in the NFL, not a starter.

4. Austiin Booker (pick 65) He is my favorite and a value for the third round.  56 tackles and 8 sacks w/ 2 forced fumbles. He, like Bralen Trice, ran a slowish 4.79 40 but they had as many tackles as the top 3-4 OLBs and they had as many sacks, on average.

NOTE:  I like 2 others, but they played opposite studs.  Chris Braswell has a great motor but his physical makeup is questionable for an elite edge. I would seriously consider him at #39--based on the "Dawg" factor alone.  He played opposite Dallas Turner, so how many sacks were due to protecting the other side or pressure forcing the QB into Braswell's lap?  Braswell ran a 4.6 if that matters.

Adisa Isaac played opposite Chop Robinson, and he too has a high motor.He ran a 4.74 at the combine, so I have to think that the 40 times for Booker, Trice, and Isaac are based on 40 times--which means very little. It does measure, however, the takeoff and release. 

So I guess my point?  If you are building a program, develop some youth at $2m per season as opposed to paying a journeyman $8m for a rental season.

image.thumb.png.1f0dfb5562bcd55d4be8dc284a0bf2b1.png

No sweat its on topic and reinforces why i asked my question to begin with.

I've got no issue with any of those guys in the draft. My point is that they are backups at best as first year players. As of now if Wonnum starts, who's his backup? Dj? OK. Roll the dice.  The other side? Chaisson, even in college, was a third down specialist. Who is starting? Him? Laughable. A second rookie? Also laughable.

In order to have even competent play we need a mid level player opposite of Wonnum. That allows you to bring these other guys along. Otherwise, why do anything in free agency if you are going to leave such an obvious weakness? We will get smoked on passing downs. 

Edited by Panthero
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1 hour ago, Biggdaddi1022 said:

Reddick if clowney doesn’t come here

We would have to overpay and even then he didn't want to stay here last time. Probably a pipe dream. If it does somehow happen people will complain about his run defense too just as they did before which is always forgotten in these convos.

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Probably won't know anything until either Clowney signs somewhere or we get sick of waiting on him and the FA pool shrinks even more. Pretty thing already, Bud Dupree, Carl Lawson, Marquis Haynes..Guys either on the tail end of their careers or strictly rotational guys

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1 hour ago, Panthero said:

No sweat its on topic and reinforces why i asked my question to begin with.

I've got no issue with any of those guys in the draft. My point is that they are backups at best as first year players. As of now if Wonnum starts, who's his backup? Dj? OK. Roll the dice.  The other side? Chaisson, even in college, was a third down specialist. Who is starting? Him? Laughable. A second rookie? Also laughable.

In order to have even competent play we need a mid level player opposite of Wonnum. That allows you to bring these other guys along. Otherwise, why do anything in free agency if you are going to leave such an obvious weakness? We will get smoked on passing downs. 

Final roster cuts may present acceptable options but, I hate going through preseason unsure of who might be starting opposite Wonnum.

Don’t forget that we pick first on roster cuts.

Edited by bythenbrs
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2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Just to be clear (because I do the same thing) you are referring to edge or the 3-4 rush OLB, correct?  To me, there is nothing there, short of overpaying Clowney.  I know Clowney had a good season last year, but he was on a winning team with a lot of support.  Here, he would not have as much support and he would not win as much.  I am afraid we'd be paying for performance in Baltimore and not Carolina. 

We now have Wonnum on the Strong side and he is mediocre.  We have an interesting choice in Chaisson on the Rush Edge side and he was out of position before--maybe he will return to first round pick status here.  I am cautiously optimistic.  We have Barno who played well at times and I think would improve in year 3.  Beyond that,  Johnson has underwhelmed and Leota has been below average, but he was an underafted rookie. 

I hope this is not seen as an attempt to derail your thread.  It is a good topic on its own.  I simply think the option to finding a free agent starter is to develop what you have and draft a player.  I have been researching this when you posted this, so I thought I'd share where my mind is right now:

If you look long term and at the cap, considering we are likely not going to make the playoffs, use the year to draft and develop an edge. Develop Chaisson (first round talent) and Barno, two players who have skills but lack technique, to overly simplify.

In the draft, I like the following players (note that not all players on the list are 3-4 rush OLBs like Burns was--that is what we need):

1. Chop Robinson (he could fall to the Panthers, but it is highly unlikely. pick #33)

2.  Bralen Trice (pick #65 if available) Was slow 4.72 40 but his college productivity shows 7 sacks and nearly 50 tackles.  To me, that suggests he has the potential to be effective vs the run and get pressure on the QB)

3.  Jonah Ellis (pick 65) Productive in college with 12 sacks, but his 3 passes defended suggests that he is in the face of the QB quite a bit.  I see him as a rotational player in the NFL, not a starter.

4. Austiin Booker (pick 65) He is my favorite and a value for the third round.  56 tackles and 8 sacks w/ 2 forced fumbles. He, like Bralen Trice, ran a slowish 4.79 40 but they had as many tackles as the top 3-4 OLBs and they had as many sacks, on average.

NOTE:  I like 2 others, but they played opposite studs.  Chris Braswell has a great motor but his physical makeup is questionable for an elite edge. I would seriously consider him at #39--based on the "Dawg" factor alone.  He played opposite Dallas Turner, so how many sacks were due to protecting the other side or pressure forcing the QB into Braswell's lap?  Braswell ran a 4.6 if that matters.

Adisa Isaac played opposite Chop Robinson, and he too has a high motor.He ran a 4.74 at the combine, so I have to think that the 40 times for Booker, Trice, and Isaac are based on 40 times--which means very little. It does measure, however, the takeoff and release. 

So I guess my point?  If you are building a program, develop some youth at $2m per season as opposed to paying a journeyman $8m for a rental season.

image.thumb.png.1f0dfb5562bcd55d4be8dc284a0bf2b1.png

I can roll with this.

I want so badly to win a lot of games this year, but I need to be content with just trending towards better and building something sustainable.

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13 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

Final roster cuts may present acceptable options but, I hate going through preseason unsure of who might be starting opposite Wonnum.

Don’t forget that we pick first on roster cuts.

Meant to say, ‘waiver wire order’, not ‘roster cuts’.  Mea culpa.

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1 minute ago, bythenbrs said:

Meant to say, ‘waiver wire order’, not ‘roster cuts’.  Mea culpa.

Can you clarify what this means? Does the worst team the previous year get some advantage here? Forgive my ignorance. 

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11 minutes ago, Panthero said:

Can you clarify what this means? Does the worst team the previous year get some advantage here? Forgive my ignorance. 

Waiver priority

A team’s waiver priority is determined very similar to how teams are ranked for the NFL draft. It is based on the team’s record and multiple tiebreakers as to where they sit in the waiver priority. When the regular season ends, the waiver priority is throughout the offseason. This order also carries into the first several weeks of the next season until the NFL kicks in the current records determining the waiver order which happens following Week 3 of the season.

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30 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

Final roster cuts may present acceptable options but, I hate going through preseason unsure of who might be starting opposite Wonnum.

Don’t forget that we pick first on roster cuts.

Luckily edge is probably the most plug and play position on defense, I think draft then waiver wire is the way to go looking at the current fa options. Let DJ Johnson and Barno get a ton of work in camp to see if they are developing into anything decent

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