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Where would the Panthers be if they sat Bryce Young last season?

hepcat

By hepcat,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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56 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Dalton gets us to 5-7 wins. It would have been much easier to mitigate pressure with his style of play, and the defense would have to respect his arm. I could also see him having a few 3 TD games. He’d still get rocked pretty bad and average 3 sacks a game. I could see him and Mingo meshing well, giving us more than 1 effective receiver. 

I’ve never seen such a propaganda campaign like the one that got Bryce chosen #1 overall. Everything that was advertised was fools gold. Strikingly unpolished. The moment this was seen, he should have undergone a strict conditioning, strengthening, and fundamentals program… but the politics of the situation would never let it happen. He needed a year. Dude looks like Red trying to get his bike back from Deebo every time he steps on the field (someone should photoshop that poo.) 

Dalton doesn't get us 5-7 wins.  Seattle had the 30th ranked defense.  And it took Dalton a career high in pass attempts to get the offense to basically reach NFL average for a day.   And if the Seattle D was better, they would have gotten home a lot more and not been a fraction of a second late coming for him all game. 

I don't think Bryce has the tools to be a good NFL QB.  He will never deliever what a #1 overall should.  And I think, we will move on from him.  But some have also chosen to overrate Dalton and what he could of done for us last year.   He would have been destroyed last year.  

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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1 minute ago, frankw said:

More of the same arguments and copes. Yawn.

Need this season to get here so we can definitively know what we have in Bryce Young and get the excuses out the door once and for all.

No one is making an argument FOR Bryce Young. I think we're just pointing out the fallacy that Dalton was this huge improvement at the QB position that would have saved the season. He wouldn't have made it through 8 games. He wouldn't have passed 60 times a game. He wouldn't have played an injured Seattle defense every week.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

No one is making an argument FOR Bryce Young. I think we're just pointing out the fallacy that Dalton was this huge improvement at the QB position that would have saved the season. He wouldn't have made it through 8 games. He wouldn't have passed 60 times a game. He wouldn't have played an injured Seattle defense every week.

Dalton is honestly garbage. He's on par with Sam Darnold at this stage in his career.

All circumstances aside you want your #1 pick to be a push minimum in comparison. Not one of the statistical worst rookie season of the last 20 years.

Bryce has a lot of work to do and a lot to make up for. I hope he does. We will know by November.

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CPF4LIFE Grand Master

CPF4LIFE

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33 minutes ago, CRA said:

Dalton doesn't get us 5-7 wins.  Seattle had the 30th ranked defense.  And it took Dalton a career high in pass attempts to get the offense to basically reach NFL average for a day.   And if the Seattle D was better, they would have gotten home a lot more and not been a fraction of a second late coming for him all game. 

I don't think Bryce has the tools to be a good NFL QB.  He will never deliever what a #1 overall should.  And I think, we will move on from him.  But some have also chosen to overrate Dalton and what he could of done for us last year.   He would have been destroyed last year.  

So in your opinion....Dalton doesnt beat the the falcons week 1, saints week 2, winless vikings, texans, falcons at home, bears starting a undrafted QB, neither bucs games where we only scored a combined 18 points in both games? 

Yes or no question. 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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1 minute ago, frankw said:

Dalton is honestly garbage. He's on par with Sam Darnold at this stage in his career.

All circumstances aside you want your #1 pick to be a push minimum in comparison. Not one of the statistical worst rookie season of the last 20 years.

Bryce has a lot of work to do and a lot to make up for. I hope he does. We will know by November.

Frank? What game did Sam Darnold play over his entire time in Carolina where he look remotely as good as Daltons one game against Seattle? Name one. Not even stats wise, with a much better supporting cast.

Agree Bryce needs to play better. The oline needs to be better. The receivers need to be better. The TEs need to be better. The running backs need to be better. The scheme and playcalling need to be better. Yet, some are hung up on one player not elevating all those weaknesses. But you're right, barring injuries, we'll know more by November-ish.

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NCBlu Experienced

NCBlu

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Maybe it's just me but I think the team plays a lot better if Young sits because players know when a guy is not ready so I'm sure most the team knew by game 3 of the Young era they was not going to be much. Imagine a soon to be FA knowing that your next job depends on a over his head rookie making the team look good so everyone don't think all players on the worst team stink.

Coaches always say the best will play no matter your draft spot then they turn around and put in a guy that is clearly not ready, how would you feel knowing you don't have much of a chance. WRs got a raw deal last season everyone wants to blame them but there was plenty of times they where open just didnt get the ball or all the WRs running the same curl routes over and over all season because the coaches didn't trust Young so it made everyone look bad because the D knew what was coming...

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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10 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

So in your opinion....Dalton doesnt beat the the falcons week 1, saints week 2, winless vikings, texans, falcons at home, bears starting a undrafted QB, neither bucs games where we only scored a combined 18 points in both games? 

Yes or no question. 

Dalton wouldn't survive that many games. Bryce saved himself often and weekly with legs.   I think a lot of those games, people would have taken an even bigger issue with our OL because Dalton of been rocked on plays Bryce wasn't.  I mean, Bryce goes down easy when you get your hand on them. But Dalton wouldn't of escaped as much. 

5-7 is too high with our talent last year.  5-7 was basically the Dalton range on better Cowboy, Saints teams when he played for them.  And they easily had better skill talent, scheme and OL play than the 24 Panthers. 

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Shotgun Grand Master

Shotgun

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4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

So in your opinion....Dalton doesnt beat the the falcons week 1, saints week 2, winless vikings, texans, falcons at home, bears starting a undrafted QB, neither bucs games where we only scored a combined 18 points in both games? 

Yes or no question. 

  I would add the Colts game to that list too, Young threw 3 picks in that game 2 were pick sixes.

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CPF4LIFE Grand Master

CPF4LIFE

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6 minutes ago, CRA said:

Dalton wouldn't survive that many games. Bryce saved himself often and weekly with legs.   I think a lot of those games, people would have taken an even bigger issue with our OL because Dalton of been rocked on plays Bryce wasn't.  I mean, Bryce goes down easy when you get your hand on them. But Dalton wouldn't of escaped as much. 

5-7 is too high with our talent last year.  5-7 was basically the Dalton range on better Cowboy, Saints teams. 

Saying he wouldnt have survived would imply that Bryce and Dalton are the same QB. We honestly gonna forget Dalton has 10 plus years in the league has seen every situation and circumstance, BRYCE PLAYED LIKE A ROOKIE and made ROOKIE MISTAKES/DECISIONS . Dalton is not a rookie and has too much experience in the league to imply he would have went down the same path and came out worse. That is the inconsistency in this discussion. 

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      I hope Bryce balls out. Wouldn't bet the farm on it though. Morgan has to be practical though. He was placed into a situation where he was compelled to give Bryce a long look. There really haven't been any more practical options due to who has been available at the position. The Panthers had already put their chips in with Bryce, so putting more chips in by borrowing against the future and stacking on that by borrowing against the future without really having the requisite draft capital was a nonstarter. We could either dump Bryce and go dumpster diving for known and unknown JAGs at the position, or take out chances and let it play out with Bryce and hope for acceptable returns. Due to what looks like some good moves in the draft and free agency, it appears like we're finally getting into a position where we can take a swing again if need be without destroying the core of the team. I understand that you'll believe it when you see it, but Dan is gonna move on if Bryce can't cut it. There are too many professionals lives and careers tied to Bryce to simply accept the status quo. 
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      Football is the ultimate team sport. No sport is more dependent on others for your success - including coaching. I don't know if Bryce is the guy, but I do know this has been a very bad team all around since he got here. One of the worst o-lines and coaching staffs I've ever seen his rookie year. One of the worst defenses and receiving groups (including TEs) I've ever seen his 2nd season - with a rookie HC and OC. An improving WR group his 3rd season mostly due to a rookie. The only other WR of note didn't really play well until after the 10th game of the season due to injury. Still no receiving TE to speak of. And lost games because of the worst pass rush in the NFL. And the only speed he's ever had on the field was DJ Chark. A washed up DJ Chark that played here one year and has had 31 yards receiving since leaving.  Carolina had no business moving up for a QB in 2023. They weren't ready. Especially if it meant trading your only good WR to do it. Now finally there's potential on defense. Potential on o-line. Potential at WR, including some actual speed in a game where speed kills. If BY falls on his face this season, then he has to own it. Situation may not be perfect, but it's at least NFL average across the board. I won't beat him up for being bad in bad situations on a bad team. But a 4th year QB has to be able to control the offense and make players/coaches right. The team looks good enough on paper to show what he can do now.   
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