The New and Improved Offense: The Offensive Line

[MHS831]

While my recent post focused on a position group (WR) that I expect to be much improved, I am equally eager to see the new OL take the field.  Not only are they better, I can list three glaring reasons I think they would be better even if we kept the same personnel:

1.  We have a new offensive line coach in Joe Gilbert.  He did well in Tampa Bay keeping Brady upright, but he has about 30 years of NFL experience.  He is not Campen, a coach I was excited to get but noticed how much he sucked over the last two seasons.

2.  We have a new assistant coach with TE coaching experience (from Seattle).  Kekuewa should help Pat McPherson when the TEs are working on blocking assignments with the OTs.  Knowing how to trade the TEs and use them to help a tackle against speed rushers should be a new wrinkle.  Before, we did little of this because the Offense was getting set a few seconds before the play clock expired.  Bryce is smart--use his brain and allow him to move TEs if necessary.  We actually have 2 TEs who should be good blockers (Thomas and Tremble)--use them to help Moton and Ekwonu.

3. 2.7 seconds to release the ball.  Teams blitz less when they know they are not getting to the QB.

4. An elite RB.  Brooks and Chuba is a pretty good tandem.

All of those make us better before we take a look at the OL personnel

The Offensive Line personnel

Left Tackle:  Ickey Ekwonu:  Ickey needed a solid technician coming out of NC State and he did not get one.  Campen had trouble communicating with Gen Z OL, and he and Ickey could not have been more different.  Ickey will benefit from the new coaching staff.  While many Huddlers are concerned, he was a respectable 67.4 on PFF--and the OL are probably one of the easiest positions to grade accurately using their metric.  With smarter TE help, a quicker release, a better LG, a better running game, and better technique, I expect Ekwonu to cut his penalties and sacks in half.  Depth is also important, and Yosh Nijman was an excellent signing.  In about 1000 snaps over the past 2 seasons in Green Bay, the PFF score for him is a respectable 62 (rounded average). 

Left Guard:  Damien Lewis:  Lewis has a dangerous combination of power and excellent feet.  He can reach block in a zone scheme (his specialty) and he can scoop and pull.  He is great at positioning his body to finish blocks after contact.  PFF scores range from the high 50s to low 70s over the past 4 years, but this guy is smart and gets to his man.  When he and Ickey get familiar with one another, we will be able to run Left with power as much as right...Christensen is much better depth than we have had at G in the past.  He is smart and a good pass protector at G--not as powerful, but over the past 3 seasons, he has averaged around a score of 60-which is decent for a backup. 

Center:  Austin Corbett  While we have never really seen Corbett play center, there are some who think it is his natural position.  I am sure he is intelligent and experienced, As seen in the video below, he has been groomed to play center for years, but situations have necessitated that he play elsewhere.  I am hopeful and confident that his intelligence will be more of an asset at C than LG, and with two stud OGs beside him, he will likely be challenged less than Bozeman was last season.  With a young QB, a seasoned veteran like Corbett to call schemes is probably going to take some of the load off Bryce.  It is possible that Corbett, experienced and in his prime, will excel at the position he seems born to play.  The more thought I have given this, the more it seems that by signing Hunt and Lewis and moving Corbett to a position that utilizes his strengths, the biggest weakness of the Panther offense in 2023 is now quite possibly its biggest strength.

Right Guard: Robert Hunt. Much like Damien Lewis, Hunt is very good at moving his feet after contact to get his body into ideal position.  In addition, Hunt has great hands to help him win stalemates or execute his job responsibilities when the DT stunts or slants away from him.  He is great at reaching LBs on the second level, taking great angles and demonstrating good balance.  This requires a knowledge of the plays because he must angle toward the point where he expects the LB to be--knowing how the play is going to pull him toward the point of contact.  I am very excited about both starting guards.  Depth?  I am not sure, but Zavala and Mays will get looks as depth on both sides along with BC--(Mays and BC could be backup centers as well).

Right Tackle: Taylor Moton.  Moton is solid and consistent, a quiet leader who gets the job done.  Moton had a very impressive 74.6 PFF rating for 2023.  As our best lineman, he simply needs to keep doing what he has been doing. 

Summary

There is reason to expect Ickey to be much improved in 2023.  Our guards will be the best combo in the NFL.  Austin Corbett will play his natural position and his intelligence and skills will be assets.  Moton is going to be Moton.  The OL will be experienced but in their primes.  While the WR corps is greatly improved, there is no other unit that should be more improved than the offensive line--think Saints OL when Brees was QB--that is what we did.  Both Guards have experience playing in systems that featured small, young QBs and the OL coach has a year with Baker (in Tampa).  Russell Wilson was good in Seattle; Tua was his best in Miami.  Our depth is better. 

Expected OL Roster:  (No more than 9 on 53; Possibly Raym, Jensen, DiRenzo, and Lee to Practice Squad because Cade Mays, Bradey Christensen can back up multiple positions and Nijman can  play both LT and RT.)  I could see them carrying as few as 8 OL on the active roster)

• LT Taylor Moton, Yosh Nijman (2)
• LG Damien Lewis, Brady Christensen, (2)
• C Austin Corbett, Andrew Raym (Christensen, Mays)  (2)
• RG Robert Hunt, Chandler Zavala, Nash Jensen (2)
• RT Taylor Moton (Nijman, Christensen) (1)

 

 

[KSpan]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

 

Expected OL Roster:  (No more than 9 on 53; Possibly Raym, Jensen, DiRenzo, and Lee to Practice Squad because Cade Mays, Bradey Christensen can back up multiple positions and Nijman can  play both LT and RT.)  I could see them carrying as few as 8 OL on the active roster)

• LT Taylor Moton, Yosh Nijman (2)
• LG Damien Lewis, Brady Christensen, (2)
• C Austin Corbett, Andrew Raym (Christensen, Mays)  (2)
• RG Robert Hunt, Chandler Zavala, Nash Jensen (2)
• RT Taylor Moton (Nijman, Christensen) (1)

 

Moton at both left and right tackles? Bold AND daring.

[MHS831]

10 hours ago, KSpan said:

Moton at both left and right tackles? Bold AND daring.

Mistake on my part---Ickey at LT, Moton at RT.  But yes, I live on the edge.

[Khyber53]

Gosh, I hope you're right. Having a first rate O-line is something we haven't had since, well, maybe 2005-ish. If they can just give the little guy a fighting chance, we could see what he can do. And if we could also get that running game going because of it... It might be fun to watch the games again.

Right now, everything is just on paper. I hope it plays out well. I'm not needing much here, but just breaking even would be such a big step.

It all begins in the trenches and I think we've spent well on the O-line. Time will show I guess. Coaching changes were needed, but as we've seen so many times before, new doesn't always guarantee improvement.

[Iceup]

It’d be nice if the change in scheme and coaching could make Mays, and/or Zavala serviceable linemen or depth. I’m excited to see Icky establish himself and be successful- I’m hoping these changes payoff- our wagons are hitched to these guys this year.

Edited July 24, 2024 by Iceup

[Icege]

Some other tidbits regarding the OL improving:

• The Panthers played 10 different guards last season, started 9. The average pass blocking PFF grade for that group was 36.6.
• Only two Panthers' iOL had pass blocking grades that were over 50 (Brady Christensen (51.4) and Calvin Throckmorton (57.8)) while they had just as many with sub-10 grades (Chandler Zavala (7.1) and JD DiRenzo (8.1)).
• Of the ten different guards that the Panthers played last year, only one player took more than 500 snaps and that was Throckmorton who was cut mid-season. Four players had sub-100 snaps (Christensen, DiRenzo, Brett Toth, Justin McCray). Meanwhile, Robert Hunt logged 608 snaps and Damien Lewis logged 926. Sustaining a healthy OL will be vital for the unit as it tries to gel. The Panthers with the highest snap counts were the aforementioned Throckmorton (564), Cade Mays (434), Chandler Zavala (374), and Nash Jensen (302). 
• Cade Mays was the highest graded guard for the Panthers last season with a PFF grade of 58.3. Gabe Jackson was next with 58.1 and he only played 194 snaps. Both of these players also struggled in pass blocking (Mays 43.0, Jackson 48.9) compared to run blocking (Mays 71.2, Jackson 63.1). Robert Hunt and Damien Lewis' overall grades? 76.4 and 59.6, respectively. With no snap minimum, the Panthers essentially went from a tandem with the #64 & #66 best PFF grades to #7 & #55.
• Hunt (74.4) and Lewis (63.0) both had better pass blocking grades last season than any player on the Panthers roster. Throckmorton (57.8) was the closest. Run-blocking wise, only two players had better grades than Lewis (57.9) and those were Mays (71.2) and Jackson (63.1). Hunt (74.7) had a higher grade than all of them.
• Chandler Zavala was at the bottom in nearly every category except for one where just one player performed worse: run blocking. Zavala's 41.5 was higher than Nash Jensen's 38.6.

Edited July 24, 2024 by Icege

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

Cade Mays was the highest graded guard for the Panthers last season with a PFF grade of 58.3

[PantherGuy]

@MHS831 can you shed more light on the differences between Ickey and Campen? Was it just racial and age or was there more to it?

[PNW_PantherMan]

I'm most interested to see how Icky does.  He should be in a much better situation and hopefully asked to play to his strengths.  Bryce is overshadowing everything but this is really a make or break year for Icky.

Great post OP

Edited July 24, 2024 by PNW_PantherMan

[Basbear]

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I'm most interested to see how Icky does.  He should be in a much better situation and hopefully asked to play to his strengths.  Bryce is overshadowing everything but this is really a make or break year for Icky.

Great post OP

Yep byce has everyone attention, but like you said its a make or break year for ICky too. I'd even toss in Horn too, soooo many issues on this team.

I have the worst feeling that starting 2025, panthers will need 2 edges/OLB/DEs, 1 LT, starting QB, #1 CB, MLB, and #1 TE.......no wonder they didn't score over 20 more than 4 times.....its bad.

[ForJimmy]

5 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

This is really what needs to be highlighted. Yeah we were not dead last in total OL ranking because Moton was solid and Icky was streaky. However the OG play was so terrible the offense couldn’t function. 

[Basbear]

15 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

This is really what needs to be highlighted. Yeah we were not dead last in total OL ranking because Moton was solid and Icky was streaky. However the OG play was so terrible the offense couldn’t function. 

I watched the games and seen the replays, about 40-50% of time young was running for his life after each snap. It was truly bad for the run game as well. Still they didn't improve or try too.....they even cut the best OG thundercock for whatever reasons. You should never invest that much in a QB if the OL didn't have answers to problems. Seems they thought Colbert missing the first six games could be worked around, but chirst when down before halftime week 1 and they never found a solution until Gabe Jackson late season. Just no depth. 

*But I honestly feel the best current overall unit is the OL and the depth should be decent-good too. Who knows maybe Dan can even trade a couple OLmen for help else where. I feel chirst is worth a late rounder at min. I do have center questions and my fav FA looks to be signing with Seahawks....ugh//

[TheSpecialJuan]

good post 

[WhoKnows]

On 7/24/2024 at 7:25 AM, Khyber53 said:

Gosh, I hope you're right. Having a first rate O-line is something we haven't had since, well, maybe 2005-ish. If they can just give the little guy a fighting chance, we could see what he can do. And if we could also get that running game going because of it... It might be fun to watch the games again.

Right now, everything is just on paper. I hope it plays out well. I'm not needing much here, but just breaking even would be such a big step.

It all begins in the trenches and I think we've spent well on the O-line. Time will show I guess. Coaching changes were needed, but as we've seen so many times before, new doesn't always guarantee improvement.

I still don’t get why the 2014-2017 OL is so dissed. When 4 starters have gone to pro bowls or been selected to all pro teams, you’d think that they would get some credit. Our interior OL was as good as anyone’s. In 2015, we were ranked top 2 or 3 just behind the Cowboys. I know LT is a sticking point in here but I’d take the actual 2014-2017 OL over the “potential” of this OL every day of the week. I hope this one ends up being good but I feel like the 2014-2017 OL is completely ignore in here even though it was ranked really high. If it weren’t for all the damn 2016 injuries, that OL leads us to four straight playoff appearances.