Training Camp for 7/29/2024

[ForJimmy]

Just now, Basbear said:

Yo Dave...... start leaning on Jim Caldwell.

 

 

I'm not sure how Caldwell kept his job after the offensive offensive showing last year.

[Basbear]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

I'm not sure how Caldwell kept his job after the offensive offensive showing last year.

Only deal that saved him was he had to gain teppers trust somehow. Marty herniay proved how easy it was. 

After about three weeks into Dave's hiring, I wished Dan hired evero instead. But I get the offensive staff would have been impossible to keep if success came. 

I wish one of the reporters would ask if the RPO will be apart of this years system and if so how much? It never made sense why frank never put it in some plays last year. I think this a big deal, imo. 

[KSpan]

37 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I don't think throwing 55+ yard passes in stride with zero WR adjustment is as commonplace as you think.  Even significantly shorter throws than that from elite NFL QBs routinely have receivers slowing down or adjusting to the pass in some way.  If the receiver catches it and scores, no one cares or dwells on an underthrown ball.  Remember Cam's first NFL TD pass against the Cardinals?  That ball was significantly underthrown to a wide open Steve Smith and yet everyone was hype.  I saw a lot of underthrown deep balls from Stroud to wide open receivers last year but no one cares cause their talent and scheme allowed for a margin of error...ours didn't.  That's what separates good teams from bad teams.

I'm sorry, but underthrowing a receiver deep like that rep - in a straight line, with no pressure in your face - is not impressive and most any QB better make that throw in this situation. Johnson slowed up noticeably when the ball was in he air and waited on it. We are talking about a practice rep, not something that happened in a game, but if it DID happen in a game like you say there could absolutely still be questions about a QB's arm strength. 

Regarding Cam, your comment is entirely irrelevant and non-equivalent. No QB is perfect on every throw and it's unrealistic to expect that - I sure don't expect it of Bryce. Since you brought it up though, Cam threw that with a much lower trajectory than Bryce's pass here and Steve was streaking wide open so it could very well have been a 'just don't miss this' decision. I have nothing to back that up and Cam just likely underthrew him, so don't twist my words, but those types of throws are definitely a thing with guys that open. However, there was no question that Cam had a cannon, and there are very valid questions around Bryce's NFL arm strength. Entirely non-equivalent.

[MasterAwesome]

11 minutes ago, KSpan said:

I'm sorry, but underthrowing a receiver deep like that rep - in a straight line, with no pressure in your face - is not impressive and most any QB better make that throw in this situation. Johnson slowed up noticeably when the ball was in he air and waited on it. We are talking about a practice rep, not something that happened in a game, but if it DID happen in a game like you say there could absolutely still be questions about a QB's arm strength. 

Regarding Cam, your comment is entirely irrelevant and non-equivalent. No QB is perfect on every throw and it's unrealistic to expect that - I sure don't expect it of Bryce. Since you brought it up though, Cam threw that with a much lower trajectory than Bryce's pass here and Steve was streaking wide open so it could very well have been a 'just don't miss this' decision. I have nothing to back that up and Cam just likely underthrew him, so don't twist my words, but those types of throws are definitely a thing with guys that open. However, there was no question that Cam had a cannon, and there are very valid questions around Bryce's NFL arm strength. Entirely non-equivalent.

Well now you're making me defend things I've never said.  I've never claimed that throw was "impressive".  I just think you have an unrealistic standard for deep passes in general, and I also think you're overreacting to this one clip.  You guys claim that Bryce basically never attempts deep passes (even in practice) and you expect him to instantly nail the timing on a deep throw to Diontae?  These things require many many reps to master between a QB and his receiver.  Even if I grant you that 55 yards is Bryce Young's absolute max air distance on his throws - then presumably all it would take is Bryce throwing the ball half a second earlier and then that pass is on the money without Diontae slowing down.  These are exactly the types of things that training camp is meant to work through.

I think you're still downplaying how hard it is to make a 55-yard throw on the money to a receiver in stride, even if we're talking straight line in practice with zero pressure in your face.  It'd be comparable to, say, the pinpoint accuracy it would require to toss a football 55 yards into a standard commercial trash can (let's say 55 gallon).  Do you think that's a super easy thing that every elite NFL QB would do on every pass in practice with no pressure?  A throw like Bryce's in the clip is technically significantly harder because of the aforementioned timing when factoring in an actual receiver rather than a stationary target.

[rayzor]

4 hours ago, La Pantera said:

I’d imagine all the WRs practice all the routes…in practice.

This, but beware.... you're going up against a pretty widely accepted narrative that everything this team and brand new coaching staff does sucks.

Season is over

[rayzor]

So funny how y'all have decided so much just from this one throw like it perfectly encapsulates EVERYTHING there is too know about this offense, the players, and the coaches.

[KSpan]

41 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Well now you're making me defend things I've never said.  I've never claimed that throw was "impressive".  I just think you have an unrealistic standard for deep passes in general, and I also think you're overreacting to this one clip.  You guys claim that Bryce basically never attempts deep passes (even in practice) and you expect him to instantly nail the timing on a deep throw to Diontae?  These things require many many reps to master between a QB and his receiver.  Even if I grant you that 55 yards is Bryce Young's absolute max air distance on his throws - then presumably all it would take is Bryce throwing the ball half a second earlier and then that pass is on the money without Diontae slowing down.  These are exactly the types of things that training camp is meant to work through.

I think you're still downplaying how hard it is to make a 55-yard throw on the money to a receiver in stride, even if we're talking straight line in practice with zero pressure in your face.  It'd be comparable to, say, the pinpoint accuracy it would require to toss a football 55 yards into a standard commercial trash can (let's say 55 gallon).  Do you think that's a super easy thing that every elite NFL QB would do on every pass in practice with no pressure?  A throw like Bryce's in the clip is technically significantly harder because of the aforementioned timing when factoring in an actual receiver rather than a stationary target.

Nowhere did I say that you said it was impressive, nowhere did I say anything about timing but rather that the throw was NFL table stakes, and yes, I do think nearly every NFL QB could complete that pass in that scenario when the receiver has to wait on it like Johnson did. And it's not 'pinpoint accuracy' unless there was a target on the ground stating that's where he was throwing. It's just downfield catch and yes, I fully acknowledged elsewhere that it's a single rep.

I have nothing else to say here. Only time will tell how things actually shake out.

Edited July 29 by KSpan

[strato]

I don’t think a ball 20 yards downfield should be considered a deep ball. Because it isn’t.

 

 

[TD alt]

2 hours ago, KSpan said:

Yes, that is an actual deep ball. It was also still underthrown/Diontae had to wait on it.

That's the thing - every NFL QB can put the ball 55 yards down the field. Hell, a lot of adults can do it. How many can do it accurately and how much effort does it take to do so is the differentiator..

It wasn't a bad pass, just not a perfect one. It doesn't make any difference anyway because it's practice, and not even a full squad on that play and no pads to boot. I think that choosing this play, of this practice, to criticize is just gratuitous hating. We're not going to learn anything from it, positive or negative, in the long run.  There will be way more meaningful plays to critique in the near future. 

[TD alt]

13 minutes ago, strato said:

I don’t think a ball 20 yards downfield should be considered a deep ball. Because it isn’t.

 

 

Well, that's not necessarily true. Most NFL types consider a pass 20 yards or more as a deep ball.

[strato]

Chunk plays are 20 plus. 

About deep balls. If I am at the 20 facing the end zone. I’m in the Red Zone. Throwing to the goal line makes it a deep ball? 

So 20 is deep. And 40 is deep. And 50 is deep.  It doesn’t really synch up to my way of looking at things. 20 has to be medium to me.  

 

[KSpan]

19 minutes ago, TD alt said:

It wasn't a bad pass, just not a perfect one. It doesn't make any difference anyway because it's practice, and not even a full squad on that play and no pads to boot. I think that choosing this play, of this practice, to criticize is just gratuitous hating. We're not going to learn anything from it, positive or negative, in the long run.  There will be way more meaningful plays to critique in the near future. 

Never even said it was a bad pass, just that it was underthrown. Which it was. And regarding deep balls, the NFL can call it whatever they want but a 20 yard pass doesn't even get into opponent territory after a touchback. That is not 'deep' in any real, game-swaying sense.

[jayboogieman]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I'm not sure how Caldwell kept his job after the offensive offensive showing last year.

He has a particular set of skills acquired over...

[Jackie Lee]

51 minutes ago, strato said:

Chunk plays are 20 plus. 

About deep balls. If I am at the 20 facing the end zone. I’m in the Red Zone. Throwing to the goal line makes it a deep ball? 

So 20 is deep. And 40 is deep. And 50 is deep.  It doesn’t really synch up to my way of looking at things. 20 has to be medium to me.  

 

This is a deep ball. PJ's also 5'10"