We are over the cap

[jtm]

Morgan is in a tough spot and I don’t envy him. Tough owner combined with impatient fans and the fans lack of patience is warranted given that we are likely on our 3rd rebuild in 5 years. 
 

Morgan/Beane’s playbook in Buffalo was to free up cap space and aggressively go after players in free agency and especially on the OL and DL. So far we’ve seen this already on the OL. 

Edited September 4, 2024 by jtm

[Jackie Lee]

 

[UNCrules2187]

16 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

This should've shaved ~$1.69m off the 2024 cap number, so another ~$4.48m to go. 

They can shave another ~$2.1m by restructuring Dalton (he already has 3 void years on his deal to spread the proration over). After that, the best moves to make IMO would be either restructuring Corbett (saving ~$3.42m) or by extending Hubbard (since it's pretty much a given Sanders will be cut after the season) and Pineiro.

Edited September 4, 2024 by UNCrules2187

[CarolinaRideorDie]

In Brandt Tilis I trust, the Panthers brought him in for a reason. Time for him to earn that money by saving the Panthers money!

[strato]

Extending years of a player near retirement is something I looked at. I did that without really understanding what voidable years are and still don't have that.

What I found though, was a retirement is the same as a cut, cap wise. You take it all that year or spread the dead over 2 years with a post June 1st designation. 

 

[UNCrules2187]

18 minutes ago, strato said:

Extending years of a player near retirement is something I looked at. I did that without really understanding what voidable years are and still don't have that.

What I found though, was a retirement is the same as a cut, cap wise. You take it all that year or spread the dead over 2 years with a post June 1st designation. 

 

Void years are basically dummy years on a contract for the purposes of spreading out the guaranteed money/signing bonus on the cap. For example, Dalton signed a 2-year, $10m deal last offseason with a $4m signing bonus. The deal was structured as a 5-year contract with 3 voided years tacked on the end to spread out the $4m signing bonus over 5 years rather than over 2 years.

edit: here's an explainer - https://overthecap.com/creating-cap-space-by-extending-players-with-void-years

Edited September 4, 2024 by UNCrules2187

[jb2288]

1 hour ago, UNCrules2187 said:

This should've shaved ~$1.69m off the 2024 cap number, so another ~$4.48m to go. 

They can shave another ~$2.1m by restructuring Dalton (he already has 3 void years on his deal to spread the proration over). After that, the best moves to make IMO would be either restructuring Corbett (saving ~$3.42m) or by extending Hubbard (since it's pretty much a given Sanders will be cut after the season) and Pineiro.

If we extend Chubba I'll lose the benefit of doubt I've been giving this new front office

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

Void years are basically dummy years on a contract for the purposes of spreading out the guaranteed money/signing bonus on the cap. For example, Dalton signed a 2-year, $10m deal last offseason with a $4m signing bonus. The deal was structured as a 5-year contract with 3 voided years tacked on the end to spread out the $4m signing bonus over 5 years rather than over 2 years.

It's just kicking the can, basically. Accounting loophole. 

But the cap hits will keep coming. The Saints were exceptional at this for a long time.

[strato]

Just now, UNCrules2187 said:

Void years are basically dummy years on a contract for the purposes of spreading out the guaranteed money/signing bonus on the cap. For example, Dalton signed a 2-year, $10m deal last offseason with a $4m signing bonus. The deal was structured as a 5-year contract with 3 voided years tacked on the end to spread out the $4m signing bonus over 5 years rather than over 2 years.

Thank you. So how does that reconcile with a cut or release policy that allows a single hit, or splitting it over two years? I see that as going like: 

4 million over 5 years is what they structured, right? So 800k per. If he retires next year then he has 2.4 million to account for. I believe that would have to all go on the table. So take a 2.4 mil hit one time, or 1.2 mil two times. 

Barry Sanders, I read somewhere, had to give signing bonus money back when he retired early. 

The moral is, you can get some relief doing that if the player performs at your acceptable level for two seasons, and don't make those voidable years so heavy that you don't like the bill if they retire. 

[MHS831]

 I see Moton  being an effective RT for another 3-4 years.  If you extend him for 2 years, you should be able to cover costs.  He is only guaranteed (through 2025) what he has already been paid in signing bonus.  So in terms of new guaranteed money with the Panthers, that number is only $3m starting this year, $0 next year.  I think we could drop his salary to $22m and guarantee most of it through 2027, when he is 33-34 years old. That would increase his guaranteed money from $3m to about $40m, add 2 years, and save the Panthers about $8m per for 2024 and 2025.  I normally do not get into the tall grass with money etc. because I do not know enough about it, but this seems like an offer a 30-year might consider, especially if he wants more security and to retire a Panther.

Why Moton?  He is pretty dependable and you can count on his professionalism and consistency--like Ryan Kalil when we kept reworking his deal

 

 

Edited September 4, 2024 by MHS831

[UNCrules2187]

2 minutes ago, strato said:

Thank you. So how does that reconcile with a cut or release policy that allows a single hit, or splitting it over two years? I see that as going like: 

4 million over 5 years is what they structured, right? So 800k per. If he retires next year then he has 2.4 million to account for. I believe that would have to all go on the table. So take a 2.4 mil hit one time, or 1.2 mil two times. 

Barry Sanders, I read somewhere, had to give signing bonus money back when he retired early. 

The moral is, you can get some relief doing that if the player performs at your acceptable level for two seasons, and don't make those voidable years so heavy that you don't like the bill if they retire. 

When you get up to the void year, you either have to extend the player and replace the void years with real years, or (more commonly), the contract automatically voids and the entire remaining cap charge accelerates onto the cap the year the contract voids. So in the Dalton example, his contract is set to void after the season, and the remaining amount of the prorated bonus ($2.9m) will hit the 2025 cap. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

 I see Moton  being an effective RT for another 3-4 years.  If you extend him for 2 years, you should be able to cover costs.  He is only guaranteed (through 2025) what he has already been paid in signing bonus.  So in terms of new guaranteed money with the Panthers, that number is only $3m starting this year, $0 next year.  I think we could drop his salary to $22m and guarantee most of it through 2027, when he is 33-34 years old. That would increase his guaranteed money from $3m to about $40m, add 2 years, and save the Panthers about $8m per for 2024 and 2025.  I normally do not get into the tall grass with money etc. because I do not know enough about it, but this seems like an offer a 30-year might consider, especially if he wants more security and to retire a Panther.

 

 

 

Even if he was to agree to that, and I seriously have my doubts, maybe the panthers dont want to pay TM $22 million per season.  And adding the guaranteed aspect seems insane.    Moton is an aging slightly above avg RT that is currently being paid way too much all things considered.  Like we said earlier, the front offices actions seem to dictate that they are just going to bite the bullet this year and re-access next off season where they have more options.  But I can promise you morgan and tillis do not want to give him a guaranteed deal for the next 3 years.

[strato]

Right, UNCrules.. okay.Pretty much what I said.

I thought about playing some kind of game like that with a retiring guy's deal. But it doesn't offer a lot.

Maybe a guy we wouldn't be keeping after next year (Sanders ?).

Edited September 4, 2024 by strato

[Jackie Lee]

2 minutes ago, strato said:

Right, okay.Pretty much what I said.

I thought about playing some kind of game like that with a retiring guy's deal. But it doesn't offer a lot.

Maybe a guy we wouldn't be keeping after next year (Sanders ?).

Sanders we're kinda stuck with this year unless we could trade him. Next year we just cut his ass post June 1 and save almost $7M. No need for any funny business w that one