QB School - Week 1 vs New Orleans

[strato]

1 hour ago, parker said:

I was willing to give him a chance this season, but he has gotten worse.  Time to give up on him.  Last year people weren't getting open. This year we have guys getting open and he is either missing or not seeing them.

That was happening last year too, people overlooked it. He can't see them I think.

 

There is also that Alabama open vs NFL open, and I believe that was a factor as well. He held the ball a lot.

Right off the bat Canales said 2.7 seconds. Because he held the ball, just as much as it was said to help him avoid sacks.

Edited September 12 by strato

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

This is why the biggest mistake coaches have made with him since HS is not getting him sound fundamentally while he learned to be all loose-y goose-y outside the pocket.  This is also why Kyler can look bad, but not all the time.  Because he's got a cannon, because he still has some burners.  It's also why Russ has fallen apart.  

I agree with you, but most coaches aren't gonna do that kind of thing.  If they're good enough to win at the current level, then don't fix what ain't broke.

[Bear Hands]

15 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I agree with you, but most coaches aren't gonna do that kind of thing.  If they're good enough to win at the current level, then don't fix what ain't broke.

Yeah.  If there are limitations, they're going to be there inside the pocket or out.  So might as well work on what you can correct fundamentally in-structure prior to a play breaking down (although I think he's at a point where he's simply too small/not enough physical tools).  What I feel happened here is they saw this kid act like a mini-Mahomes, and were just like, alright this is working, just let him cook. 

And now, we see what happens when a 5'9 1/2 185 guy with a JP Losman arm and no pocket-awareness tries to play mini-Mahomes ball lol

[frankw]

22 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I've accepted the jumping thing, erratic footwork, strange parallel to LOS drop is not going to end.  It's part of his "technique".  And it's the most damaging component to his entire game, as much as his size.  For some reason, no coach wants to correct it because there's this notion that you can work with the backyard style to an extent and dropbacks and throwing motion doesn't need to be perfect.  But Mahomes and a few others are exceptions to the rule IMO.  

He's the most compelling case that tells me this: the further you are outside of prototypical modern QB parameters, the more you actually need to execute IN-structure and have fundamentals/technique as sound as possible. 

This is why the biggest mistake coaches have made with him since HS is not getting him sound fundamentally while he learned to be all loose-y goose-y outside the pocket.  This is also why Kyler can look bad, but not all the time.  Because he's got a cannon, because he still has some burners.  It's also why Russ has fallen apart.  

When you're not only an outlier physically/tools wise, but your game (at least in college) was best out of structure, then how do you expect to execute at a fundamental level in the NFL?  You can't.  You need to operate at a high level, in the pocket, and be fundamentally sound to execute and he simply can't do it.

All of this seemed so easy to spot though. Like if you go back and rewatch Bryce Young and CJ Stroud in college their prodays and the combine you will be like wow I can see why Stroud is having success. He was absolutely throwing lasers and he didn't have to put his whole body into it to launch the ball downfield either.

This whole debacle has been how to get yourself fired and torpedo your sports franchise for dummies.

[PNW_PantherMan]

17 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Yeah.  If there are limitations, they're going to be there inside the pocket or out.  So might as well work on what you can correct fundamentally in-structure prior to a play breaking down (although I think he's at a point where he's simply too small/not enough physical tools).  What I feel happened here is they saw this kid act like a mini-Mahomes, and were just like, alright this is working, just let him cook. 

And now, we see what happens when a 5'8 1/2 185 guy with a JP Losman arm and no pocket-awareness tries to play mini-Mahomes ball lol

He's not athletic enough for his play style.  I greatly overestimated his athleticism because I didn't really watch him much in college.  I thought we were getting something closer to Kyler Murray but smarter with the ball.  Kyler can get away with being the size of a leprechaun because other than his height he is in the top percentile of athleticism.  He could have played professional baseball as well.  Similar to Russell Wilson, but Kyler is even more athletic than young Russ was.

Bryce just doesn't meet the minimum bar to play QB in the league.  I don't know that there is an offense you can put him in that works.  And I'm not sure why any team would waste so much time and effort trying.  This isn't Cam Newton.  Where you try and build around the strengths and weaknesses of a unique player.  This is a guy who only has weaknesses.  That's not someone that should be on the team, much less have everything architected around them.

It's unfortunate but all we can do is try again with someone else.

[Panther53521]

The big argument was, “his receivers couldn’t get open”. So we go get some WR’s that can get open, they open, he can’t get close to them with the ball.

Example complete… NOT NFL QB. It’s time to move on, nothing to see here

[strato]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

He's not athletic enough for his play style. 

Nutshell. 

[BIGH2001]

8 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

He's not athletic enough for his play style.  I greatly overestimated his athleticism because I didn't really watch him much in college.  I thought we were getting something closer to Kyler Murray but smarter with the ball.  Kyler can get away with being the size of a leprechaun because other than his height he is in the top percentile of athleticism.  He could have played professional baseball as well.  Similar to Russell Wilson, but Kyler is even more athletic than young Russ was.

Bryce just doesn't meet the minimum bar to play QB in the league.  I don't know that there is an offense you can put him in that works.  And I'm not sure why any team would waste so much time and effort trying.  This isn't Cam Newton.  Where you try and build around the strengths and weaknesses of a unique player.  This is a guy who only has weaknesses.  That's not someone that should be on the team, much less have everything architected around them.

It's unfortunate but all we can do is try again with someone else.

Everything has to work perfectly for him to be an average starter at best. When everything is perfect his ceiling is Tua a few times a game. 90% of the time I think he’s about as good as Clausen.

[strato]

8 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

Everything has to work perfectly for him to be an average starter at best. When everything is perfect his ceiling is Tua a few times a game. 90% of the time I think he’s about as good as Clausen.

That is a fundamental truth and I argued it hard. The margin is so tight, and we were making it harder on ourselves. Why would you do that? Take the path of least resistance. 

[mrcompletely11]

9 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

I've accepted the jumping thing, erratic footwork, strange parallel to LOS drop is not going to end.  It's part of his "technique".  And it's the most damaging component to his entire game, as much as his size.  For some reason, no coach wants to correct it because there's this notion that you can work with the backyard style to an extent and dropbacks and throwing motion doesn't need to be perfect.  But Mahomes and a few others are exceptions to the rule IMO.  

He's the most compelling case that tells me this: the further you are outside of prototypical modern QB parameters, the more you actually need to execute IN-structure and have fundamentals/technique as sound as possible. 

This is why the biggest mistake coaches have made with him since HS is not getting him sound fundamentally while he learned to be all loose-y goose-y outside the pocket.  This is also why Kyler can look bad, but not all the time.  Because he's got a cannon, because he still has some burners.  It's also why Russ has fallen apart.  

When you're not only an outlier physically/tools wise, but your game (at least in college) was best out of structure, then how do you expect to execute at a fundamental level in the NFL?  You can't.  You need to operate at a high level, in the pocket, and be fundamentally sound to execute and he simply can't do it.

  

without proper mechanics he will never work out due to his size and (lack of) strength.  Cam could slightly overcome it due to just being a dawg.

 

And like I asked all off season, why would this year be any different?  Why would he change his mechanics now after having elite coaching and qb camps since 8th grade?  He isnt going to change and he will never be a competent qb.  There are now 17 games worth of film for coordinators to look at and I suspect that is more then enough to come up with a gameplan to beat bryce.

[Bear Hands]

4 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

without proper mechanics he will never work out due to his size and (lack of) strength.  Cam could slightly overcome it due to just being a dawg.

 

And like I asked all off season, why would this year be any different?  Why would he change his mechanics now after having elite coaching and qb camps since 8th grade?  He isnt going to change and he will never be a competent qb.  There are now 17 games worth of film for coordinators to look at and I suspect that is more then enough to come up with a gameplan to beat bryce.

I’m just amazed so many over the years have taken this assumption that it’s okay for him to have his “style” for lack of better term, along with this notion he was some godsend with anticipation throws and mental acuity. 

Hope next time we’re looking at QBs, the team just steps back and looks at the nuts and bolts to see if this is a dude built for the position, has the arm and can make every throw. Baseline. Then get into the mental makeup and romanticized intangibles.

[Green-Ghost]

19 hours ago, Basbear said:

Bama had the same 6 5" 330 dudes in front of him. Hes playing like those bama games never happen and he just stepped onto a football. The one thing that got him drafted, seems to be the main issue-mentally he looked shocked. 

I suspect the decision to take Bryce was, at least partially, due to Alabama’s reputation.  I mentioned in a post, can the Coaches look at past Alabama plays, that were made while Bryce was there? Is there any benefit to analyzing his performance?  (Or is it comparing apples to oranges.). 
 

 

[PleaseCutStewart]

20 hours ago, Basbear said:

Bama had the same 6 5" 330 dudes in front of him. Hes playing like those bama games never happen and he just stepped onto a football. The one thing that got him drafted, seems to be the main issue-mentally he looked shocked. 

Yeah, but when your oline can block way less talented teams for like 10 seconds while throwing to WRs that are open in 1 second, you will look much better than you actually are...

[PNW_PantherMan]

20 hours ago, Basbear said:

Bama had the same 6 5" 330 dudes in front of him. Hes playing like those bama games never happen and he just stepped onto a football. The one thing that got him drafted, seems to be the main issue-mentally he looked shocked. 

 

7 minutes ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Yeah, but when your oline can block way less talented teams for like 10 seconds while throwing to WRs that are open in 1 second, you will look much better than you actually are...

We still haven't seen this guy in the NFL.  Some of these are crazy pass protection and the receiver is open by a mile.  But some of these throws are just playing with confidence.  I don't think we would ever see this guy in the NFL.  He got hit in the mouth in his first game and he never recovered.  You can't make it in this league without mental fortitude.