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It's not just the Panthers... the NFL sucks at developing young QBs "it's a systemic problem"

rayzor

By rayzor,
in Carolina Panthers

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L-TownCat Grand Master

L-TownCat

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This is only going to keep getting worse with NIL and the transfer portal the way it currently is. Now if a guy isn't getting the PT he wants right now or has an opportunity to go to a bigger higher profile program there's a good chance he's gonna transfer out to the highest bidder. College systems are probably going to get even further simplified because now you're dealing with even more years over year roster turnover. There isn't development, everything has to be focused on plug and play. But again, that's not the fault of college coaches. They're not making the rules. They're just trying to do everything they can to win college football games within the structure of the rules they're given to abide by.

Oh absolutely, it’s both good for the college game and bad for the future all at the same time.  Toss in the rule changes and inconsistency from the zebras week to week and the fundamentals will soon be a distant memory to the watered-down product they call “football”.

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Davidson Deac II Grand Master

Davidson Deac II

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5 hours ago, Mage said:

I'm not convinced that the NFL is any better or worse at developing QBs now than they were 20 years ago.  I mean I'm sure there are some developmental issues at play, just not sure it is any different than it has been.

The biggest difference IMO is that NFL teams are waaaaaaaay more willing to invest a 1st round pick into a QB now than they were 15-20 years ago.  A guy like Colin Kaepernick would probably be a top 5 pick in 2025, whereas he went in the 2nd in 2011.  Would a guy like Trey Lance go top 3 in 2010?  Hell no.  Look at Russell Wilson - he didn't go until the 3rd round.  The standard for being a 1st round QB has dropped.

So it may seem like we're seeing more high-profile busts at the position, but we're also seeing teams reach for QBs way more than they have in the past.  Someone with Anthony Richardson's college resume doesn't go in the top 3 20 years ago.  

Agreed.  

Fwiw, I think 30 years ago, Bryce young would be a 4th round pick if that.  But the changes in football allow him to put up video game numbers on a team like Alabama.  

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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45 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Agreed.  

Fwiw, I think 30 years ago, Bryce young would be a 4th round pick if that.  But the changes in football allow him to put up video game numbers on a team like Alabama.  

I think the changes just led people to believe that a guy like Bruce could translate to the NFL now. Guys who lack NFL measurables have been putting up big numbers in college forever but in decades past NFL evaluators would look at them and say "great college player but it's almost certainly not gonna translate to the NFL" and they'd go on to be a mid to late round pick. But with the rule changes they see a guy like Bruce who they think checks all the boxes outside of elite physical talent and they convince themselves it can work now. Wrong. There are still very real physical prerequisites.

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csx Grand Master

csx

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I'm not sure how re

9 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Brady is wrong. College coaches' jobs are to win college football games not develop NFL players. For the past couple of decades the college game has been the driver of innovation in the game. The new "pro style offense" is basically a college offense with additional layers of complexity. It's a lot more similar to a college offense than the traditional pro style offense.

I've only seen references to college offenses being dumbed down. It's a common topic the last few years.

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Panthers Fan 69 Grand Master

Panthers Fan 69

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No. The issue is all colleges run a read option or spread.  These kids are taught from day one to do 1 read and go.  The nfl is still pro style. The last issue is they are forced to play early when they aren’t ready. That’s your issue. The nfl needs to go to a point where they “red shirt” these guys. Give them an extra year on a guaranteed  rookie deal if you have too. They aren’t ready.  It’s that simple

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CPantherKing Grand Master

CPantherKing

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5 hours ago, rayzor said:

after reading that, i don't know if you watched the video. 

It's a plug for QB Summit. They work with all the teams and sell them on their college QBs as 1st round picks that are too young to perform at a championship level. Eisen and Palmer are large parts of the problem. Palmer would never say don't pick a 1st round QB unless the team is ready for them. He would rather teams struggle with a Bryce Young or Blaine Gabbert using their development programs for 6 to 8 years before getting any return from them.

Meanwhile, the teams that know how to work the QB position and build for championships have 2 to 3 year turnarounds while dominating the league. Palmer told the world not to study the champions.

 

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The problem is you gotta draft them to get them though. SB caliber 28-30 year old QBs are simply not available.

You don't have to draft them. Many don't, and the ones that do will not draft them in the 1st round to develop them for 6 years.

You can have 2 to 3 of them in any offseason. The Vikings did it this year with Darnold, Mullens and Rypien. Darnold may need 1 or 2 more seasons to be ready, but he's close to leading a team to a championship game.

The Chiefs (Smith, Foles, Henne, Daniel, Wentz), Bucs (Brady, Gabbert, Mayfield), Rams (Stafford, Mayfield Wentz, Garoppolo), Eagles (Foles, Wentz), Broncos (Manning), and 49ers (Garoppolo, Mullens, Beathard, Johnson, Darnold) all did it over the past decade. 

Mahomes, Hurts, and Purdy were all plugged into teams that were built to be competitive off of the older vet QBs that made them competitive.

I keep suggesting the championship solution (Good for Walsh, Holmgren, Billick, Belichick, Gruden, Dungy, Reid, Arians, the McVays, Pederson, the Kubiaks, and the Shanahans), but everyone wants the unicorn decade long multi coach project QB while wasting away the opportunities at getting top young defensive players.

Whatever combo you want to become competitive and have the luxury of trading up for a 1st round QB. They're always available in the modern NFL and swapped between winning teams.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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3 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

It's a plug for QB Summit. They work with all the teams and sell them on their college QBs as 1st round picks that are too young to perform at a championship level. Eisen and Palmer are large parts of the problem. Palmer would never say don't pick a 1st round QB unless the team is ready for them. He would rather teams struggle with a Bryce Young or Blaine Gabbert using their development programs for 6 to 8 years before getting any return from them.

Meanwhile, the teams that know how to work the QB position and build for championships have 2 to 3 year turnarounds while dominating the league. Palmer told the world not to study the champions.

 

You don't have to draft them. Many don't, and the ones that do will not draft them in the 1st round to develop them for 6 years.

You can have 2 to 3 of them in any offseason. The Vikings did it this year with Darnold, Mullens and Rypien. Darnold may need 1 or 2 more seasons to be ready, but he's close to leading a team to a championship game.

The Chiefs (Smith, Foles, Henne, Daniel, Wentz), Bucs (Brady, Gabbert, Mayfield), Rams (Stafford, Mayfield Wentz, Garoppolo), Eagles (Foles, Wentz), Broncos (Manning), and 49ers (Garoppolo, Mullens, Beathard, Johnson, Darnold) all did it over the past decade. 

Mahomes, Hurts, and Purdy were all plugged into teams that were built to be competitive off of the older vet QBs that made them competitive.

I keep suggesting the championship solution (Good for Walsh, Holmgren, Billick, Belichick, Gruden, Dungy, Reid, Arians, the McVays, Pederson, the Kubiaks, and the Shanahans), but everyone wants the unicorn decade long multi coach project QB while wasting away the opportunities at getting top young defensive players.

Whatever combo you want to become competitive and have the luxury of trading up for a 1st round QB. They're always available in the modern NFL and swapped between winning teams.

You named all of those guys and only one of them (Foles) ended up being a 28-30 year old SB QB and he was signed to be a backup to an elite QB and ended up getting an elite team across the finish line catching lightning in a bottle. Thanks for making my point for me.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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1 hour ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

No. The issue is all colleges run a read option or spread.  These kids are taught from day one to do 1 read and go.  The nfl is still pro style. The last issue is they are forced to play early when they aren’t ready. That’s your issue. The nfl needs to go to a point where they “red shirt” these guys. Give them an extra year on a guaranteed  rookie deal if you have too. They aren’t ready.  It’s that simple

That's not an nfl issue it's an owner issue. The owners put pressure on the coaches to play them before they are ready. Very few if any have a vet to sit behind for at least a year to learn and adjust to the game. The Panthers would benefit from having a serviceable veteran that would allow them to sit their next rookie. Had they done that last season maybe things would look different. 

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