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After Graham, next best Dline players

Jmac

By Jmac,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 4:43 PM, KaijuGato said:

I think the key is to draft BPA in whatever position we are going to be in. It would be nice to win out even if it is meaningless. It will allow us to know what winning feels like and let that roll over into next season. We lost close games to good teams, but that experience for these players and coaches. It’s creating culture and experience for this team and develops a winning mentality and not a tanking mind set. 
 

Needless to say the draft is deep on defense, maybe not top end talent, but enough talent to be day 1 starters to develop into top end talent. 

Learning how to win is better than good draft position. Truthfully, it isn't about position, it's about evaluation. We suck at the later. Until you fix that issue, position will never matter at all.

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SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

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13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Learning how to win is better than good draft position. Truthfully, it isn't about position, it's about evaluation. We suck at the later. Until you fix that issue, position will never matter at all.

I love the post. I’d like to add one thing to it. In recent years we have also suck “player development”. 

We’ve had some talented players come thru Carolina that have failed to impress while they were here, only to flourish in different environments. Two of the best QBs in the NFC this season (Mayfield and Darnold) were on our roster…at the SAME TIME…and we got nothing out of them. Even Teddy Brigewater put a career high in TDs the year after he left us in Denver.

Jeremy Chinn almost won Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2020. The next season they changed the way he was deployed and he seemed to regress every year after that.

I hope this new regime will start developing more of the young players that are added to the roster going forward.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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33 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I love the post. I’d like to add one thing to it. In recent years we have also suck “player development”. 

We’ve had some talented players come thru Carolina that have failed to impress while they were here, only to flourish in different environments. Two of the best QBs in the NFC this season (Mayfield and Darnold) were on our roster…at the SAME TIME…and we got nothing out of them. Even Teddy Brigewater put a career high in TDs the year after he left us in Denver.

Jeremy Chinn almost won Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2020. The next season they changed the way he was deployed and he seemed to regress every year after that.

I hope this new regime will start developing more of the young players that are added to the roster going forward.

Well, TBH, Mayfield was pretty developed. Darnold needed more stops than ours and I also don't still buy into him.

Honestly, the instances of players leaving here and THEN shining are pretty rare. It's a real testament to how poor we are at talent evaluation, IMO.

We will see with the new regime. The one thing I like as that they seem to move on quickly if someone isn't going to work out. I do appreciate that, oddly

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ProcessBlue2 Grand Master

ProcessBlue2

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16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, TBH, Mayfield was pretty developed. Darnold needed more stops than ours and I also don't still buy into him.

Honestly, the instances of players leaving here and THEN shining are pretty rare. It's a real testament to how poor we are at talent evaluation, IMO.

We will see with the new regime. The one thing I like as that they seem to move on quickly if someone isn't going to work out. I do appreciate that, oddly

Yeah there have been more that retired after leaving here than sprouted somewhere else. 

Example: Greg Little, John Miller, and Pat Elflein are all out of the NFL now.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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2 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Yeah there have been more that retired after leaving here than sprouted somewhere else. 

Example: Greg Little, John Miller, and Pat Elflein are all out of the NFL now.

And all the guys that we drafted that people here said would "show us" when they left.

TMJ, Mingo, Corral, Grier, etc, etc. All these guys that were either bums or replacement level players.

We have guys that have left here great and kept being great. Peppers, CMC, Luvu, etc. 

But the bulk of the guys that didn't pan out here, they also didn't pan out elsewhere.

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Joe Bear Mentor

Joe Bear

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On 12/23/2024 at 12:04 PM, cookinbrak said:

Abdul Carter is the one.

I am very unenthusiastic about picking a DL who plays on a defense that's full of stars, allowing him free reign to go after the ballcarrier/passer. He won't have that luxury here, so is it worth burning a top-five pick to get four sacks spread over 17 games?

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bear said:

I am very unenthusiastic about picking a DL who plays on a defense that's full of stars, allowing him free reign to go after the ballcarrier/passer. He won't have that luxury here, so is it worth burning a top-five pick to get four sacks spread over 17 games?

Also the history of Penn St. pass rushers is pretty rough over the past 20+ years.

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Jay Roosevelt Grand Master

Jay Roosevelt

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I'm not nearly as impressed by the interior DLs in this class as I am with the EDGE class.

If we don't take Mason Graham early the only interior DL I like in the 1st/2nd round is Tyleik Williams from Ohio State. Luckily, we're in much better shape at that position than we are at EDGE with Derrick Brown returning next year.

Outside of the obvious pick in Abdul Carter, I like Kyle Kennard, Mykel Williams and Jalon Walker in that order. But it seems Kennard is ranked quite a bit lower than the other two.

If we're going DL back-to-back I'd LOVE a Mason Graham-Kyle Kennard combo. I'm not sure there's a combo of a 1st round DE + 2nd round DT that makes sense, TBH.

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Tr3ach Grand Master

Tr3ach

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If we miss out on Graham I think you have to go edge.  I don't think they value is there at wr and also good passes rushers basically only come in the first round.  The drop off in productivity in pass rushers statistically taken after the first round is crazy.

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toldozer Grand Master

toldozer

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I'd like to win these next two games, not really worried about the draft position next year. The second half of the season the team has been competitive.  Winning the last three to end the year would be a great building block for next season and more important than any one player imo. Finally feel some hope and it feels good.

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    • strato
      That's it. How do you feel about this draft class.

      By strato · Posted

      I was watching a YouTube and it was said that scout and GM insider types were saying the NIL had killed rounds 4-7. I don’t know that I buy it, seems like it might for a year or maybe two but then those guys have to move on.  NCAA is apparently about to give 5 years of eligibility. It is gonna skew those entrants older maybe.   
    • ForJimmy
      Panthers attempted to trade up with Ravens?

      By ForJimmy · Posted

      Miller being less raw and more pro ready makes sense of why they picked him. With us having a capable starter in Walker the lower floor higher ceiling player makes sense for us as well. I agree with that. 
    • tukafan21
      Panthers attempted to trade up with Ravens?

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      I'm from Michigan and have had this discussion with my Lions friends, and they all agree with me, they were never going to take Freeling over Miller.  As, yes, you are correct, they could have left Sewell at RT and taken Freeling, but they are in a SB contention window right now. An OL with Freeling at LT and Sewell at RT is not as strong as Sewell at LT and Miller at RT would be for this upcoming season and likely at least next year as well. 5 years it could be looked back upon as a long term "mistake" to take Miller over Freeling, but for a franchise like the Lions, you can't worry about the long term when you have current SB aspirations.  It's all about maximizing their current SB window over the next 1-3 years. And it's not about style, it's about day 1 readiness, and a lot of "experts" aren't even sure if Freeling is ready to play Week 1 yet at the position he's used to, let alone switching to a side he hasn't played before, but a career starting RT is going to be more than ready to fill that role for them Week 1. I'm 100% convinced that if our draft positioning was swapped, we'd have still taken Freeling, they'd have still taken Miller, and both teams would have got the OT that they preferred due to what each team needs right now and what their current realistic aspirations are for the 2026 season. We're in a position where we can let our drafted OT sit and learn for a bit, they needed a week 1 starter, for me that's where this discussion becomes very easy to understand why each team took the player they did.
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