An honest look at Bryce Young

[NAS]

20 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

The ravens have the most physically gifted QB going and the sub a TE in for their sneaks 

Great point, sorry mixed you up with the Aggie dude haha

Edited 15 hours ago by NAS

[jfra78]

Just now, NAS said:

Lol so we have to be Ravens now? You think every team has Lamar.  We don’t need Bryce to be Lamar or Josh Allen, just be the best version of himself and we’ll be in great shape 

He not saying he needs to be Lamar. He's saying they even sub a TE for Lamar on sneaks.  Which we should do as well

[NAS]

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He not saying he needs to be Lamar. He's saying they even sub a TE for Lamar on sneaks.  Which we should do as well

My bad totally misread that.  That works in the most obvious situations

[AggieLean]

38 minutes ago, NAS said:

Great point, sorry mixed you up with the Aggie dude haha

The Aggie dude? 

[CRA]

11 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Did the numbers support that his height was an issue? He had few batted passes and PFF said his biggest improvement was throwing over the middle.  As he said he has played football at this height for most of his teenage and adult life at the highest levels. In fact I remember talking heads saying how he seemed to find windows and seams to throw the ball. So for whatever reason it seems he has figured out how to adjust his game to what he does best.

height being an issue doesn't just mean batted balls.  You could argue Bryce minimizes batted balls by adopting other poor habits such as his jump passing and leaving the pocket.   As I said, there are plays you can point to where he clearly was blind to parts of the field/players....which kills plays and opportunity. Which actually means some of the shorter/hot throws when things break down are where his vision gets blocked (and he had below average production all around the line of scrimmage).  

has he figured it out? I mean, he improved off a trainwreck start.  But Bryce Young since arriving in the league (even while figuring it out)......doesn't generate much offensive production vs his peers. 

I just think his ceiling is low.   And that's not in the grand scheme what you want in the NFL.  I think he can develop into a serviceable QB, that will largely always been a middle of the pack or low end starter.   

[CRA]

10 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

The ravens have the most physically gifted QB going and the sub a TE in for their sneaks 

Ravens mixing it up with a random Mark Andrew tush push last year isn't a similar situation.  Lamar has run QB sneaks his entire career.  And often instead of a traditional sneak will even employ a 4th and 1 direct snap to Lamar simply because of how athletic he is (which even Cam did a lot of) and let him pick his own holes.  

[Jaxel]

Are we still arguing that the QB sneak of all plays is some career defining weakness. Teams run an average or 4.5 qb sneaks per year! Yes that average has increased recently with the tush push, but the fact is league average is like 1 per game. It is a non factor.

[CRA]

Just now, Jaxel said:

Are we still arguing that the QB sneak of all plays is some career defining weakness. Teams run an average or 4.5 qb sneaks per year! Yes that average has increased recently with the tush push, but the fact is league average is like 1 per game. It is a non factor.

being arguably the smallest QB in the modern era.....is likely a factor though.  Making that just a QB sneak convo isn't the right convo. 

[panthers55]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

height being an issue doesn't just mean batted balls.  You could argue Bryce minimizes batted balls by adopting other poor habits such as his jump passing and leaving the pocket.   As I said, there are plays you can point to where he clearly was blind to parts of the field/players....which kills plays and opportunity. Which actually means some of the shorter/hot throws when things break down are where his vision gets blocked (and he had below average production all around the line of scrimmage).  

has he figured it out? I mean, he improved off a trainwreck start.  But Bryce Young since arriving in the league (even while figuring it out)......doesn't generate much offensive production vs his peers. 

I just think his ceiling is low.   And that's not in the grand scheme what you want in the NFL.  I think he can develop into a serviceable QB, that will largely always been a middle of the pack or low end starter.   

Again where is the evidence. You keep saying it but honestly you have shown no evidence. Unless you know what he was supposed to do and then what he did do, you don't know anything about his intentions and or forced changes due to height. His completion percentage for passes from 1 to 10 yards was only slightly lower than his best percentage which was 10 to 20 yards passing.  Not enough of a difference to be significantly different. 

Truth is you have an agenda that you try to justify despite any evidence to the contrary. Many of us felt the same way but have allowed his actual play to inform our opinion. I still would have picked Stroud over Bryce but I am willing to keep an open mind and see what is there instead of filtering everything through my biases and already polarized opinions.

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again where is the evidence. You keep saying it but honestly you have shown no evidence. Unless you know what he was supposed to do and then what he did do, you don't know anything about his intentions and or forced changes due to height. His completion percentage for passes from 1 to 10 yards was only slightly lower than his best percentage which was 10 to 20 yards passing.  Not enough of a difference to be significantly different. 

Truth is you have an agenda that you try to justify despite any evidence to the contrary. Many of us felt the same way but have allowed his actual play to inform our opinion. I still would have picked Stroud over Bryce but I am willing to keep an open mind and see what is there instead of filtering everything through my biases and already polarized opinions.

you want me to provide evidence of his jump balls? Or bailing the pocket?  I don't think either of those claims requires me to show you evidence.  What do you want evidence of exactly? 

never did I mention downfield throws.  I said, he gets blind to play at the lines because of his size (the quick stuff).  There are literally plays I don't have time to search for but have been highlighted on QB school where there is just no way he can see the options on certain plays even if wide open (talking behind and around the line of scrimmage).   Line too close paired with the receiving  option too close.  And the stat I referenced (which you can find on next gen stats) was he is below average at and behind the line of scrimmage....which I'm sure his size/vision plays a role in the why.

I have an agenda? Cool.  Then so do you. 

and again, Bryce's cherry picked best play (which isn't how anything works).....still leaves him on the low end of production. 

I'm not overly bashing Bryce.  I just acknowledge, most signs point to him having a low ceiling.  And in the big picture, that's not the direction you want to go.  He is our QB for now.  I hope he improves.  Which in turn would allow our O and others to develop.   But to me, there isn't much of an argument that Bryce Young is anything but short term solution.   

[panthers55]

18 minutes ago, CRA said:

being arguably the smallest QB in the modern era.....is likely a factor though.  Making that just a QB sneak convo isn't the right convo. 

Actually I have always felt that using a qb to sneak was a huge mistake even for big guys. Do you remember when Cam sneaked the ball and got a helmet spear to the head and it wasn't even called. It is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Everyone knows what you are going to do. Why not have a big guy or backup run the ball who is disposable? Yeah they know what is coming if you bring in a big guy. Like they don't if you keep the QB in......

Actually there are many more reasons not to sneak the ball with the qb versus using something else like New Orleans did who could still run or pass.

[CRA]

50 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Actually I have always felt that using a qb to sneak was a huge mistake even for big guys. Do you remember when Cam sneaked the ball and got a helmet spear to the head and it wasn't even called. It is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Everyone knows what you are going to do. Why not have a big guy or backup run the ball who is disposable? Yeah they know what is coming if you bring in a big guy. Like they don't if you keep the QB in......

Actually there are many more reasons not to sneak the ball with the qb versus using something else like New Orleans did who could still run or pass.

the QB sneak isn't my hill. 

Best 4th and 1 play (push tush excluded) IMO is a Cam or  Lamar direct snap not under C, not a sneak.  Which means you can't sell out completely in the gaps.  Because they can take it anywhere, or over the top, or pass.    But that's for running QBs. 

if random textbook QB (Stafford, Lawrence, whoever) is my QB.....I don't love the QB sneak.  For a lot of the reasons you mentioned. 

[Jaxel]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

the QB sneak isn't my hill. 

Best 4th and 1 play (push tush excluded) IMO is a Cam or  Lamar direct snap not under C, not a sneak.  Which means you can't sell out completely in the gaps.  You because they can take it anywhere, or over the top, or pass.    But that's QB for running QBs. 

if random textbook QB (Stafford, Lawrence, whoever) is my QB).....I don't love the QB sneak.  For a lot of the reasons you mentioned. 

The good news is, if all things go as you expect this year there should be a ton of good options at the draft next year. So there is that.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

you want me to provide evidence of his jump balls? Or bailing the pocket?  I don't think either of those claims requires me to show you evidence.  What do you want evidence of exactly? 

never did I mention downfield throws.  I said, he gets blind to play at the lines because of his size (the quick stuff).  There are literally plays I don't have time to search for but have been highlighted on QB school where there is just no way he can see the options on certain plays even if wide open (talking behind and around the line of scrimmage).   Line too close paired with the receiving  option too close.  And the stat I referenced (which you can find on next gen stats) was he is below average at and behind the line of scrimmage....which I'm sure his size/vision plays a role in the why.

I have an agenda? Cool.  Then so do you. 

and again, Bryce's cherry picked best play (which isn't how anything works).....still leaves him on the low end of production. 

I'm not overly bashing Bryce.  I just acknowledge, most signs point to him having a low ceiling.  And in the big picture, that's not the direction you want to go.  He is our QB for now.  I hope he improves.  Which in turn would allow our O and others to develop.   But to me, there isn't much of an argument that Bryce Young is anything but short term solution.   

Actually I looked up whether they keep stats on how many jump passes quarterbacks make a year. I figured Mahomes would be near the top with all his acrobatics. But I couldn't find it.

My point is and was that we see what we want and expect to see. You expect and look for validation that he is too short and small to be our franchise guy. And as the saying goes you always find what you are looking for because you ignore the contrary. I simply say compare him against his peers based on facts and stats not your observations and opinions.  And if you don't think you have an agenda you would be the first person not to.