Why do people think Bryce Young won this game yesterday?

[LinvilleGorge]

30 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

There's only one stat that really matters, right?

W-L ratio.

Right now, he's on the right side of it. Like it or not.

Am I a big fan of his performance? No, not at all. Am I looking at this realistically in the time frame we are living right now? Yeah. Is this sustainable? I don't know. And you don't either.

But kicking the kid after the team wins a game just seems disingenuous and petty. He didn't lose us this game. Did he win it? That last drive to get to the field goal was pretty well run by him. He didn't shrink and just let the thing go to overtime. 

Don't take it away from him because for some reason you think that statistically he doesn't deserve it. After a loss? Sure if it's warranted. But that win was on everyone, including him. We were vast underdogs going into that game. And yet, here we are, one game behind the Bucs for the division lead and way out in front of the Falcons and Saints. 

Enjoy that. Even if it only lasts for a moment.

You have to be honest though. Are we winning because of Bryce or despite Bryce? I mean, were celebrating a drive where he went 2/4 for 19 yards and a near INT and Rico ran us into FG range. That's how low the bar has gotten.

[SmokinwithWilly]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

*IF it doesn't come with his contract. If that is considered, I am taking Bryce. I can pivot a lot easier.

 

That contract is a dawg

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You have to be honest though. Are we winning because of Bryce or despite Bryce? I mean, were celebrating a drive where he went 2/4 for 19 yards and a near INT and Rico ran us into FG range. That's how low the bar has gotten.

The pro Bryce guys remind me a lot of the Kyle Allen, PJ Walker or even Sam Darnold fans. They are watching the games, seeing the wins and ignoring the things making those players bad. All too frequently it was wins not because of them but in spite of them. "Being just good enough to not lose" all of a sudden becoming the bar.

The eye test was always the same. These guys are a problem. The longer it went on, the more obvious it was.

[raleigh-panther]

Young’s limitations make it much harder to be competitive. 

those limitations strain every part of the team and coaching staff

…all of it, the  limited route tree, the ability to do a qb sneak in short yardage, what he sees or doesn’t see, his turnovers, his velocity, holding the ball too long.

he is mobile in the pocket but many younger QBs are 

I wish him absolutely no ill, it is just what stats bear out.  

the panthers put  themselves in this place. Young didn’t, they did and they have to figure out what to do about it   

Btw, anyone who thinks DC and DM do not know this are crazy. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

The pro Bryce guys remind me a lot of the Kyle Allen, PJ Walker or even Sam Darnold fans. They are watching the games, seeing the wins and ignoring the things making those players bad. All too frequently it was wins not because of them but in spite of them. "Being just good enough to not lose" all of a sudden becoming the bar.

The eye test was always the same. These guys are a problem. The longer it went on, the more obvious it was.

At least with the Allen and Walker defenders there was some argument to be made that we were getting at least the expected level of play out of an afterthought of a player. I mean, the vibe around Bryce would be completely different if he was a UDFA or 7th rounder. I don't think anyone (well, okay maybe not anyone but at least very few) would be trying to delude themselves into believing he was the answer but a lot of people would be happy for the youngster holding it together and at least not just flat out losing us games. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

At least with the Allen and Walker defenders there was some argument to be made that we were getting at least the expected level of play out of an afterthought of a player. I mean, the vibe around Bryce would be completely different if he was a UDFA or 7th rounder. I don't think anyone (well, okay maybe not anyone but at least very few) would be trying to delude themselves into believing he was the answer but a lot of people would be happy for the youngster holding it together and at least not just flat out losing us games. 

Yeah, I am not sure how the backup QB bar got moved to Bryce. It's very strange.

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Young’s limitations make it much harder to be competitive. 

those limitations strain every part of the team and coaching staff

…all of it, the  limited route tree, the ability to do a qb sneak in short yardage, what he sees or doesn’t see, his turnovers, his velocity, holding the ball too long.

he is mobile in the pocket but many younger QBs are 

I wish him absolutely no ill, it is just what stats bear out.  

the panthers put  themselves in this place. Young didn’t, they did and they have to figure out what to do about it   

Btw, anyone who thinks DC and DM do not know this are crazy. 

I’m sure they know it. I’m also fairly certain Tepper told them he doesn’t give a poo. 

[Jon Snow]

If you are going to give qb's a stat that includes teams wins and losses you have to give him the W.

[strato]

42 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

There's only one stat that really matters, right?

W-L ratio.

Right now, he's on the right side of it. Like it or not.

Am I a big fan of his performance? No, not at all. Am I looking at this realistically in the time frame we are living right now? Yeah. Is this sustainable? I don't know. And you don't either.

But kicking the kid after the team wins a game just seems disingenuous and petty. He didn't lose us this game. Did he win it? That last drive to get to the field goal was pretty well run by him. He didn't shrink and just let the thing go to overtime. 

Don't take it away from him because for some reason you think that statistically he doesn't deserve it. After a loss? Sure if it's warranted. But that win was on everyone, including him. We were vast underdogs going into that game. And yet, here we are, one game behind the Bucs for the division lead and way out in front of the Falcons and Saints. 

Enjoy that. Even if it only lasts for a moment.

Most people here did enjoy the game and the win. But the day is Tuesday and we have PFF grades and the tape is out and has been looked at and we are on to the next week. 

This is a critical stretch for the franchise, he has 8 games basically to show he has more than we have seen. At the end of that awaits a crossroads. 
It is absolutely valid to have these discussions. IMO. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

If you are going to give qb's a stat that includes teams wins and losses you have to give him the W.

I've always thought it odd that the QB is the only guy in the roster who carries a record. If a RB puts up 1200 yards but the team sucks then everyone still says the RB had a good year. If a QB puts up good numbers put the D is atrocious and the win loss record isn't great due to that then the narrative is that the QB can't win. Now that we're finding a way to win with suddenly dominant D and dominate running game people are trying to shift to this "Bryce is just a winner" narrative while he puts up bottom of the league numbers while near the top of the league in turnovers. It's just funny to watch.

[mav1234]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

If you are going to give qb's a stat that includes teams wins and losses you have to give him the W.

Sure but then you also have to consider his overall record...

[raleigh-panther]

9 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I’m sure they know it. I’m also fairly certain Tepper told them he doesn’t give a poo. 

Let’s hope Tepper has learned from his mistakes 

[Jon Snow]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've always thought it odd that the QB is the only guy in the roster who carries a record. If a RB puts up 1200 yards but the team sucks then everyone still says the RB had a good year. If a QB puts up good numbers put the D is atrocious and the win loss record isn't great due to that then the narrative is that the QB can't win. Now that we're finding a way to win with suddenly dominant D and dominate running game people are trying to shift to this "Bryce is just a winner" narrative while he puts up bottom of the league numbers while near the top of the league in turnovers. It's just funny to watch.

I've never contributed the W/L  record to a single player in football. Its a team sport and good players are on bad teams all the time. There's also bad players on good teams. With qb's I look at td/int ratio and that's about it. Completion percentage is effected by too many variables to rely on.

Edited November 4 by Jon Snow

[strato]

4 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

If you are going to give qb's a stat that includes teams wins and losses you have to give him the W.

It was a legit GWD, unlike quite a few I take issue with. This was that 2 minute, last possession, win it or go to OT on the road. 
I”ll give him that one he earned it. Even if it was a long FG. Brady beat our asses in the SB doing about the same thing after all.

But OTOH itwas basically a December type of football game where the QB was minimized. He didn’t have to perform another big part of quarterbacking, it was off the table. That is fine for that particular day but what’s gonna happen when they keep crowding gvthe LOS with defenders and he doesn’t throw it over their heads? 
We don’t want to find out, but we will if he can’t get the other part of the QB’s job together.