shough vs tmac off rookie of the year

[fanpanther]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/tyler-shough-thinking-about-winning-final-two-games-not-rising-offensive-rookie-of-the-year-chances

Edited 2 hours ago by fanpanther

[t96]

This shouldn't even be a discussion, lol. Shough has less than 200 yards per game, less than 7ypa, 7 TDs to 5 INT and has only even played 9 games. He could throw for 10 TDs and no picks the last 2 games (which he won't do) and he still wouldn't be deserving of OROY.

 

 

[Car123]

Shough winning it would be a travesty. I know he’s had 4 wins or so but come on. 7 TDs, 5 ints. There are more deserving players.

Edited 2 hours ago by Car123

[rodeo]

Shough barely deserves it more than Bryce Young as a rookie. Why are people so smitten with this shitty dude

[CRA]

57 minutes ago, t96 said:

This shouldn't even be a discussion, lol. Shough has less than 200 yards per game, less than 7ypa, 7 TDs to 5 INT and has only even played 9 games. He could throw for 10 TDs and no picks the last 2 games (which he won't do) and he still wouldn't be deserving of OROY.

 

 

it still gets really weird when folks want to not isolate numbers for backups that enter a games and log 0 pass yards.  It distorts all of their stats if you compare them to actual starters. 

Shough is 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team.  In this starts he is:

68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs.  6 TOs. 

That's dang good play for a 2nd round pick thrust into the role midseason on a bad team.  It flat out is what it is.  

Shough flat out deserves some props.  If folks here can't do that, it's just Saints hatred or Bryce insecurity preventing football talk.  I mean, he is producing.  Carrying a big load and winning.  In the type scenario people use to justify excusing Bryce's entire rookie year (minus the playcaller, Shough has that)

ALL THAT SAID, he is too late to the convo.  It's a 2 man race.   Last 2 games likely decide between the WRs. 

 

 

[MasterAwesome]

He's probably shown enough to warrant excitement from Saints fans.  He does seem pretty poised from what I've seen, which granted is only the two games against us which incidentally were his two best games of the season lol.  But yeah...his performance is so overblown.

14th in Completion %

22nd in YPG (7 YPG more than Bryce, for how underwhelmed we've been with Bryce's passing stats)

24th in Y/A

26th in QB rating

32nd (tied for last) in TD%

Those last three are pretty important indicators of a QB's efficiency for his offense.  You might see a stat line like 308 passing yards & 1 TD, and think "not too shabby".  Until you see it took him 49 pass attempts to accomplish that (this was last week against a depleted Jets' D).  Or 43 attempts against the Falcons to put up 243 yards, 0 TDs, and 3 offensive points.

[jb2288]

44 minutes ago, rodeo said:

Shough barely deserves it more than Bryce Young as a rookie. Why are people so smitten with this shitty dude

There was a poster on here who had him ranked above Bryce in NFC South QB rankings. My jaw hit the floor lol 

[mav1234]

42 minutes ago, rodeo said:

Shough barely deserves it more than Bryce Young as a rookie. Why are people so smitten with this shitty dude

This is a very weird take. The reason Shough doesn't deserve it is because he's only started 7 games. He's doing crazy well for a rookie and out playing plenty of vets with a worse roster. He's waaay above league average in a number of categories during his starts and he passes the eye test in game by making plays. Meanwhile Bryce Young had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time.

Still TMac deserves it more. It's only been 7 games for Shough so he doesn't deserve any awards. Even if he gets to 9 he doesn't.

[CRA]

41 minutes ago, rodeo said:

Shough barely deserves it more than Bryce Young as a rookie. Why are people so smitten with this shitty dude

He is basically having a polar opposite rookie season than Bryce. 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team. 

68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs,  6 TOs in his starts. 

and folks acknowledge the surprisingly play because no one thought poo of the random 2nd rounder and he is player better as a rookie thus far than so many prized picks did as a rookies (not just Bryce but a boatload of dudes).   It's only a sour issue to give someone props because he is a Saint and of course the Bryce thing. 

It's like giving the TE in Clev props for having near identical production as the chosen one Tyler Warren.  Fannin is having a great rookie season in a very bad spot. 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

There was a poster on here who had him ranked above Bryce in NFC South QB rankings. My jaw hit the floor lol 

in starts, he has played better, been more efficient and outproduced Bryce by virtually every statistical metric that exists in 2025.  And has the 2 head to heads over Carolina. 

I mean, your jaw should hit the floor.  But not for the reason you are implying.  That freaking stings.  Denying these realities isn't going to help the Panthers build a better team going forward. 

 

 

[MasterAwesome]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

This is a very weird take. The reason Shough doesn't deserve it is because he's only started 7 games. He's doing crazy well for a rookie and out playing plenty of vets with a worse roster. He's waaay above league average in a number of categories during his starts and he passes the eye test in game by making plays. Meanwhile Bryce Young had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time.

Still TMac deserves it more. It's only been 7 games for Shough so he doesn't deserve any awards. Even if he gets to 9 he doesn't.

Exactly which categories?  I posted his stats above.

[mav1234]

13 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

He's probably shown enough to warrant excitement from Saints fans.  He does seem pretty poised from what I've seen, which granted is only the two games against us which incidentally were his two best games of the season lol.  But yeah...his performance is so overblown.

14th in Completion %

22nd in YPG (7 YPG more than Bryce, for how underwhelmed we've been with Bryce's passing stats)

24th in Y/A

26th in QB rating

32nd (tied for last) in TD%

Those last three are pretty important indicators of a QB's efficiency for his offense.  You might see a stat line like 308 passing yards & 1 TD, and think "not too shabby".  Until you see it took him 49 pass attempts to accomplish that (this was last week against a depleted Jets' D).  Or 43 attempts against the Falcons to put up 243 yards, 0 TDs, and 3 offensive points.

It isn't really fair to include his numbers when he was a backup when trying to look at his performance.  His Y/A is at 7.1 in starts which is right on the league average. He is low in TD%, but he's also getting rushing TDs, and using his legs a decent amount - 1.3 total TDs per game isn't bad (Bryce and Mayfield are both at 1.6). His YPG in starts puts him at 10th in the league (he's actually 40+ yards above Bryce there, his YPG in stats is 237 vs 192).

That said, I'm not "sold" on him. He looks better than a ton of QBs for his team and fact he's a rookie but way too early to say much.

Edit: to directly answer your question, his YPG (237) and his completion % (68%) are way above league average, his YPA (7.1) is right at league average. His QB rating in starts is also right at league average (91.6). His INT% is also way below league average (1.7%)

Edited 1 hour ago by mav1234

[mav1234]

Also note I am not saying he 1) deserves OROTY, or 2) is better QB than X, Y, or Z. I just am impressed by him so far. But plenty of players come in for a handful of games and look good only to falter longer term.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

It isn't really fair to include his numbers when he was a backup when trying to look at his performance.  His Y/A is at 7.1 in starts which is right on the league average. He is low in TD%, but he's also getting rushing TDs, and using his legs a decent amount - 1.3 total TDs per game isn't bad (Bryce and Mayfield are both at 1.6). His YPG in starts puts him at 10th in the league (he's actually 40+ yards above Bryce there, his YPG in stats is 237 vs 192).

That said, I'm not "sold" on him. He looks better than a ton of QBs for his team and fact he's a rookie but way too early to say much.

his completion % and yards per game  in starts would put him in top 10 in both those categories.  team win % is also the same as Bryce while sporting a higher QB rating and QBR in his starts as well.   For a 2nd rounder on a bad team......it is flat out very good play.  That's not LOVING Shough.  It's just talking NFL football. 

I mean, this could be his Kyle Allen window minus the absurd fumbles and he disappears.  But it's clear some can't handle Shough being talked about purely because of how it reflects on Bryce (which ruins a TON of NFL QB talk).