On second thought...we should have paid Norman

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

How was Normans tender gonna cripple the team? So your just gonna throw recent NFL history cause it doesn't favor your arguement,

 

You came in this thread moaning looking to derail OP thread

The only thing I'm calling out is the idiot bitching that is going on in here.   I'm not throwing out anything, you're assuming history is a guarantee that the situation will play out that way.  I'm just questioning that logic.  And apparently your biased view can't accept that.

[dugbug]

Aaaaahhhh Jesus.  

 

Guys the tender was offered and trades were on the table.  Gman wanted things resolved before the draft.  Agent had whispers of trillion dollar 5766 year contracts guaranteed and it just stagnated.  

Gman can't compete with that. 

[jumpman910]

1 hour ago, Rags said:

I didn't read the content of the post because paying a CB who is nearly 30 years old nearly 50 mil Guaranteed is fuging stupid lol

This,  in a perfect situation we would've gotten Cravens/Bell in the 2nd and Daryl Worley in the 3rd and nobody would be complaining.  Just wait till the guys hit the field.  

[Rags]

21 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

I rather be a armchair QB than a hypocrite. I already posted the link to you and various others when Norman got tagged you lauded the move, calling it the smart move, how we should sign him to learn term contract. How that tune quickly changed when he got cut.

 

FYI I loved the when drafted Kelvin and Star. When we got rid of Bell and Lafell. The difference between me and knob slobbing hypocrites is that I'm willing to criticize or stand by my statement. You just blindly agree with everything

Many of us lauded the move, myself included. But just because something happened at we're okay with it doesn't mean we're 180ing on our previous stance. Many of us knew it was a one year rental, and wanted a reasonable long term contract, but knew it probably wouldn't happen. That was the general consensus feel of the board. So we keep Josh for a year, draft a CB or two, and groom em behind Josh. That's what a lot of people wanted.

So basically we just skipped the grooming behind Josh thing. That's it. That's the only step we skipped. A lot of members feel with how much talent we have on the team, we'll be fine without Josh, without a shutdown CB. And why wouldn't they, I mean as long as there's a capable CB (read: not fuging Antione Cason) we'll be okay. We made it to the Playoffs with fuging Drayton Florence (Who had an amazing season behind our front 7) as a starting CB. Which, on that note, is why so many people felt we needed Greg Hardy for a playoff push or Superbowl berth back then.

One of the most common thoughts on this board is that you could put anyone behind our front 7 and they'd succeed. Well, Antione Cason proved that wasn't true, but our front 7 helps DBs greatly. And that's why so many of us are okay with this. Because we know we'll be okay without Josh. Because we have so much talent on our front 7 that, whil yes, we won't have an elite DB anymore,and we'll undoubtedly give up more yards to #1 WRs next season,  we've won WITHOUT one before, and we'll do so in the future.  It was nice having Josh, but we'll be fine without him. I'm happy he got paid and he's still one of my favorite Panthers, and I definitely wish he was still around, but eh, onto 2016.

 

[Rags]

Gooby did you know you can want one thing to happen, and when it doesn't you can STILL be okay with how things turned out and not be a hypocrite. It's true.

[GoobyPls]

4 minutes ago, Rags said:

The only thing I'll say is I wish Gettleman could have gotten something for him. 

Be it this year or next year. Josh was leaving.  We were never going to pay him what he wanted and he was on a one year rental, The fact that we already knew this made this move a lot easier to swallow that it happened this year.

I think if this happened two years ago, with, let's say, a clean Hardy, we'd all be more upset. Hardy was more impactful than any CB will ever be in our system. In fact, Elite Pass Rushers > Elite CBs. That's a given.  An elite Pass Rusher is harder to replace than an Elite CB.

Even if we don't have a CB we consider shut down, we think we'll be fine with our front 7, and the new CBs we bought in. Sure, they won't be Josh, but it's better than if Short, Cam, Luke or TD left for nothing.

So yeah, Gettleman probably should've just put up with Josh's Agent BS, but he didn't, and that's fine. It's okay. The Panthers, believe it or not, will be fine. Just like we were fine without KB (remember when you said we wouldn't be lol that was funny your track record is amazing.)

That one year rental could of helped winnning the SB, just ask NE

 

Also finding an elite pass rusher is not harder than finding and elite corner. Panthers have never had a all-pro corner in there entire 20+ year existence until last season, we've had pass rushers come and go.

 

I still believe we will be a good team next season but the chances of winning the SB took a hit, our defense took a hit, our locker room took a hit. 

 

And last season Cam gave DG a ton and I mean a TON of leeway. The fact that DG can get away with having the cheapest, least talented, least productive (based on 2014) receiving core in the NFL, and still produce shows Cam's exllence. Almost amy other QB in that same position we would have had the worst offense in the league. 

[Rags]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

That one year rental could of helped winnning the SB, just ask NE

This is true. No one is doubting this. But the DB that shined in the SB for them was an UDFA out of some small school, not Revis. But yes, losing Josh hurts, and he could be the piece we miss in getting to/winning a superbowl.

4 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Also finding an elite pass rusher is not harder than finding and elite corner. Panthers have never had a all-pro corner in there entire 20+ year existence until last season, we've had pass rushers come and go.

That's because we're heavily a defensive team. Some people would kill for some of the DEs we've had, and after Peppers left no one thought we'd replace him easily. Turns out, the answer was on the roster with CJ, but we lucked up a bit there. One thing the Hurney/Fox era was good at was finding gems as pass rushers. And that's a value that continues with the Gettleman/Rivera era. Teams like the Jaguars, Chargers, Browns wish they could have pass rushers like us, although they all have had or have good to elite CBs in their past. There's a reason DEs are so much more valued than DBs.

 

8 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

I still believe we will be a good team next season but the chances of winning the SB took a hit, our defense took a hit, our locker room took a hit. 

No one is doubting this (and anyone who's does is acting like a jilted Ex), but we are still a top Super Bowl contender and one of the elite teams in the NFC. We still have all of our leaders in our locker room. We still have all the pieces to our Dline and LB core. We still have one of the more complete teams in the NFL. We will be fine without Josh, even if we'll be worse without Josh.

 

11 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

And last season Cam gave DG a ton and I mean a TON of leeway. The fact that DG can get away with having the cheapest, least talented, least productive (based on 2014) receiving core in the NFL, and still produce shows Cam's exllence. Almost amy other QB in that same position we would have had the worst offense in the league. 

And this is why it pays to have an elite QB. Tom Brady can get away with having fuging Julian Edleman as his #1. When you have a QB who can elevate the play of those around him you can focus on other areas. This isn't a bad thing to have leeway.

[SOJA]

keep in mind everyone that OP is the one who thought Gettleman hated Cam Newton

[TheRumGone]

1 hour ago, The_Rainmaker said:

It was just an example of what could happen if the Rookies have a harder time acclamating to the Pros, half of our DBs will be rookies starting. But the good news is the beefed up DL will allow the LBs to roam free even more. 

Half our starting dbs will not be rooks lol. There maybe just one.

[GoobyPls]

47 minutes ago, Rags said:

This is true. No one is doubting this. But the DB that shined in the SB for them was an UDFA out of some small school, not Revis. But yes, losing Josh hurts, and he could be the piece we miss in getting to/winning a superbowl.

That's because we're heavily a defensive team. Some people would kill for some of the DEs we've had, and after Peppers left no one thought we'd replace him easily. Turns out, the answer was on the roster with CJ, but we lucked up a bit there. One thing the Hurney/Fox era was good at was finding gems as pass rushers. And that's a value that continues with the Gettleman/Rivera era. Teams like the Jaguars, Chargers, Browns wish they could have pass rushers like us, although they all have had or have good to elite CBs in their past. There's a reason DEs are so much more valued than DBs.

 

No one is doubting this (and anyone who's does is acting like a jilted Ex), but we are still a top Super Bowl contender and one of the elite teams in the NFC. We still have all of our leaders in our locker room. We still have all the pieces to our Dline and LB core. We still have one of the more complete teams in the NFL. We will be fine without Josh, even if we'll be worse without Josh.

 

And this is why it pays to have an elite QB. Tom Brady can get away with having fuging Julian Edleman as his #1. When you have a QB who can elevate the play of those around him you can focus on other areas. This isn't a bad thing to have leeway.

I think a lot of people doubt Normsn. 80% of the comments were how Norman was overrated, how we was only good cause of our front 7, how he would easily be replaced.

 

Out of those 3 teams only Cleveland had an elite corner and there defense was decent considering their offense and lack of pass rush. And same can be said for a good pass rush with bad secondary I.E. the bills and Texans 

 

As for Cam I'm still hoping they start addressing the offensive needs, you can't leave him to carry the load and when things go wrong everyone blames Cam, (like in the SB) while DG in his office no where to be found.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Gettleman wanted Josh on the team next year, hence the tag.  He hoped to have Josh on the team long term, hence the contract negotiations.

What Gettleman didn't want is to mortgage the Panthers future for one player.  

Other key players contracts are coming up for renewal in the next couple of years and there is only so much money to go around.

Gettleman, after months of trying to come to an agreement with Josh and his agent, determined the Panthers dollars would be better spent elsewhere.

Is Gettleman right?  That remains to be determined, but Dave's track record as GM suggests the smart money is in his corner.

[Seltzer]

Gettleman has to be focused on the long term building of this team. You are never one player away. Injuries are too much of the game.

Gettleman negotiated in good faith with Norman's agent. I guarantee you Gettleman's preference was to sign Josh long term to a fair deal.

It didn't work out. Got to move on and continue building the best team for long term success.

All 31 other teams are trying to do the same thing. I'll defer to the judgement of Gettleman and Rivera. They honestly know better than we do.

And for all the hand wringing over the draft, the truth remains that this is a QB driven league and we have the reigning MVP.

I honestly and objectively would take the combination of Cam, Rivera, and Gettleman over anyone in the league right now. Only Seattle, NE, & GB are even close right now. 

[panthers1234]

5 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

It's not just this draft that makes me realize we should have paid Josh Norman, it's thinking back to last season. How many times during the course of last season did you stand up and say "PAY THAT MAN"

I'm sure you can flip through old game threads, it was said a lot. Norman made game changing plays last year. He was a dynamic playmaker for this team. I'm not saying we should have paid him what Washington did, but I don't think we had to go that high. 

The Seahawks paid Richard Sherman, The cardinals paid Patrick Peterson, you could argue that Revis was the reason the Patriots won the Super Bowl. 

CB was already considered a need coming in, with Josh Norman on the team. I think two reaches by our GM, who typically doesn't reach for need, shows just how bad the situation really is. 

You don't make emotional decision especially when it comes to money. Emotional decisions is what handicapped Hurney.