Current Grade: Incomplete

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

6 hours ago, The Natural said:

All we can do is hope that he's learned from his previous mistakes and can help us clean up this mess Gettleman left behind. I know it's a tough task given the circumstances but we have to keep hope. 

dare we hope for a winning season or playoff berth next year?

[CPF4LIFE]

9 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Why don't you join him?

Just earlier today you were one of the people praising Hurney's second coming.

As if Marty has done anything of significance to date other than to release a few underperforming players.

Welp, if you set the bar low enough it is reason for praise.

Thats all gettleman did when he first got here, but he got his b**** stroked for "fixing the cap" 

Dont see a difference

[Untouchable]

The Benjamin trade was excellent.  But even the Seymour trade was a good one, as was the claims for the additional depth in the secondary with Demetrious Cox and Ladarius Gunter.  The signing of Greg Van Roten and the choice at punter were good too.  When you're biggest mistake was the choice between your 2 pro bowl kickers, you had a good year.

[grimesgoat]

10 hours ago, top dawg said:

The two kicker thing has been way overblown.  Webb? Probably gone anyway,  and we absolutely didn't need him.  There's a reason that he never made it as a receiver.  

As for Butker,  meh.  If you look well enough, you can find a kicker.  The world champions did. 

I'm not sweating the Benjamin trade.  My only "problem" was the third rounder,  but frankly that's about what Benjamin's career is equal to considering his knees.  

Hurney 2.0 is still very much in the air,  but he hasn't done a bad job thus far. Even if the cuts were expected from a common sense standpoint  (and,  yes,  USA Today suggested that Coleman might be a cap casualty a few weeks ago), many didn't have the faith that Hurney would make the moves.  

Around this time is when the rubber hits the road.  The true debate will come after free agency starts. 

No offense Dawg, but the two kicker thing was huge to me. 

We burn a draft pick on a promising kicker.  We are lined up to save 3.5m - money we can at worst carry over to 2018 to help improve the roster / keep some of our favorites.  And Hurney inexplicably keeps Gano around.

Its not about did Gano have a good year.  He did.  So did Butker. 

But spending an extra 3.5m on a guy that has not exactly been clutch in the past in lieu of a young guy with promise was extremely disappointing (in my opinion).

I did like the KB trade though.  He was pragmatic and thinking ahead on that one.  We could simply not afford that 5th year salary hit.

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Smithers said:

In all fairness, we don’t know what kind of career Butker will have.  I wish we would have kept him for sure, but to say that he would consistently have the same result as last season may be a stretch.  Plenty of kickers have put together a good season here and there and wound up out of the league a couple years later.

Said in the OP, "if he's consistent".

Same deal with Gano, of course. At his age, kickers frequently hit a wall. There's also the possibility we might not even get to keep him.

Loads of things are still up in the air.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, uncfan888 said:

This team needs to completely move on from the past. Gettleman was better than hurney but we need a new GM that's better than both of them

I'm pretty sure the new owner will be significantly less likely to bring back a GM that was previously fired than Jerry Richardson was.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Cyberjag said:

Scot, you're as consistent as CNN's Trump coverage, I will give you that.

You're free to offer an alternate opinion as opposed to just sitting back and complaining.

[TheCasillas]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

So I see a few folks evaluating "Hurney 2.0" with "good moves so far".

Eeehhh, maybe.

The reality is that the majority of the moves that have been made so far have come at a time when it's not really possible to judge their true impact.  All of the free agency and draft work for last season had already been done long before Hurney came aboard.  Likewise, nothing that's happened this year to date has exactly been earth shattering or unexpected. 

Realistically, the effect of the most recent moves can't be judged until you see what follows them, and even the overall effect of all that won't really be known until the season plays out at the very least. You can talk about cleared cap space if you like, but that isn't really a win in and of itself until you see what the team does with it. 

If you want to talk meaningful, team impacting transactions, there's not much to go on at this point.

Here's what we do have:

 

KEVON SEYMOUR / KAELIN CLAY TRADE

The Transaction: Early last season, we traded receiver/returner Kaelin Clay and a seventh rounder for former Bills sixth rounder Kevon Seymour.  Clay was later waived by the Bills and wound up back here, so the net giveaway for the Seymour trade was a seventh.

The Impact: Not much, really.  Although some folks thought Seymour would supplant starting corner Daryl Worley, that hadn't happened by season's end.  So far, Seymour doesn't really look like he's anything special.  Clay on the other hand did make some good plays after coming back and shows some promise as a return man, but nothing to the point where he also isn't easily replacable.

 

PALARDY OVER LEE

The Transaction: Hurney kept the much younger punter Michael Palardy over veteran Andy Lee who had been acquired via the trade of a fourth round pick.  Lee was cut and ended up with the Cardinals. Palardy is an exclusive rights free agent who'll likely be brought back by the Panthers at a minimal salary this season.

The Impact: Pretty good for last season, at least. Palardy and Lee ended the year with fairly similar stats (the Panthers can claim overall better special teams performance).  As long as Palardy can be equally consistent next year, it looks like this may have just been the right choice.

 

THE TWO KICKERS GAMBIT

The Transaction: When the final roster was announced last season, a lot of people did a double take.  No, it wasn't an illusion.  We really were carrying two kickers.  That ultimately didn't last long as the team finally settled on Graham Gano while Harrison "Buttkicker" Butker was signed off of our practice squad by the Chiefs.

The Impact: Mixed to negative. Gano had a good season, but it was slightly marred by the fact that Ron Rivera didn't wind up going for fifty yard plus field goals, even at times when he really should have.  In one game, Rivera inexplicably punted from the 35 at a time when the Panthers were down by 18 points in the third.  In another, Rivera refused to try a long field goal near the end of the first half, which prompted an apparently annoyed Gano to go out and try the kick (successfully) during a lull at halftime then glare over at the coaches on the sideline.  Butker, meanwhile, had a good season himself in Kansas City, even earning Special Teams player of the Month honors in December on top of being named a Pro Bowl alternate. 

There's also the business side of the move.  Gano will earn a high salary this season and is up in years while the much younger Butker is still on his rookie deal and has the potential to be the Chiefs answer at kicker for the next decade to come if he remains consistent.  Hurney originally kept Butker around in the belief that he could get something for him via trade.  He was, in fact, offered a trade of a low round pick but believed he could get a better offer.  He didn't, and Butker ended up being lost with nothing to show for it. Throw in that keeping the second kicker cost the Panthers the services of versatile player Joe Webb.

Most people consider this whole affair to be a blunder, how big of one is a source of debate.

 

JAIRUS BYRD SIGNING

The Transaction: The Panthers signed former Saints big money acquisition safety Jairus Byrd in October for safety depth.  Byrd came aboard at the same time wide receiver / no relation Damiere Byrd went to injured reserve.  He saw action in a total of twelve games with no starts.

The Impact: Minimal. Byrd generated a total of nine solo tackles and two assisted tackles for the season.  He's an unrestricted free agent this season.  No indication the Panthers plan to re-sign him.

 

SEVERAL PLAYERS TO IR

The Transaction: Marty Hurney has a rep for being quick on the trigger when it comes to putting guys on injured reserve, and 2017 did nothing to change that perception.  The season ended with fourteen players on IR, including several rookies and three of last year's draftees (WR Curtis Samuel, DE Daeshon Hall, CB Corn Elder). Greg Olsen and Damiere Byrd also spent time on IR but returned.

The Impact: Impossible to judge. Some believed the team could have used a few of the IR'd players, and others argued it would have been better for some (Hall especially) to get reps rather rehab.  But the reality is there's no way to accurately judge how much of a difference any one could have made.  It's just part of Hurney's MO and probably always will be.

 

KELVIN BENJAMIN TRADE

The Transaction: Here's the one that generates the most talk.  A short time before the league trade deadline, Bills GM / former Panthers Assistant GM Brandon Beane contacted Marty Hurney about a trade for receiver Kelvin Benjamin.  The two negotiated and eventually settled on a third and seventh round pick as compensation.  Loads of Panther fans (and several Panthers player) felt blindsided by the trade, and there were hints of annoyance from Benjamin's teammate and close friend, quarterback Cam Newton.

The Impact: Still in process. Although he didn't initiate the trade, Hurney reportedly saw it as a chance to improve the Panthers offense.  Did they look better?  Maybe in a game or two, but overall the offense in the games following the Benjamin trade was still largely stagnant, enough to get OC Mike Shula fired by season's end.  After rookie Curtis Samuel was placed on IR, receiver depth looked dismal, and many argued that having Benjamin around would have made a huge difference (even Joe Webb could conceivably have done something but he was gone thanks to the two kicker thing).  The Panthers are expected to look for another receiver via free agency or the draft this year.  Draft expert Mike Mayock suggests they should seek one in the same mold as Benjamin, something that would fit in well with new OC Norv Turner's preferences.  For his part, Benjamin didn't have a huge impact in Buffalo largely due to knee issues.  He's reportedly having surgery this offseason, so the Bills are hoping for more next year. 

Right now, who won or lost in this trade is still undecided.

 

So overall, a pretty mixed bag on last year's moves - some still without definitive outcomes - and most of this year's significant moves are yet to come.

Obviously, Hurney's first run as Panthers GM doesn't merit good grades.  Yes, he made some good moves, but nobody gives you credit for "good moves".  You either win or you don't, and more often than not Hurney's teams didn't.  Three out of eleven winning seasons is a score of 27 percent.  If you go by win-loss record, Hurney's teams fall just short of 500 overall.  On pretty much any grade scale, either of those percentages are failing. 

As far as Hurney's second run, though?  In my mind, there's not enough information yet to award a grade of A or F, so I'm giving it an I for Incomplete.

Feel free to argue for a better grade, or a worse one, if you think you have evidence.

You are trying way too hard brother.  Why spend all this time putting this together? Let the man have an offseason of signings and drafting before we grade him.

Btw: We won the KB trade. 3rd and 7th for a player with knee injuries? You said that he could of contributed due to the depth issues on our team late in the season. The guy has a "broken" knee. I'm not sure he could of helped, and Cam would have force fed him the ball(because of their relationship, nothing else). We wouldn't of made it to the playoffs.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, TheCasillas said:

You are trying way too hard brother.  Why spend all this time putting this together? Let the man have an offseason of signings and drafting before we grade him.

I could swear that's what I just did 

Is there an alternate definition of the word "incomplete" that I'm not aware of?

[Cyberjag]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're free to offer an alternate opinion as opposed to just sitting back and complaining.

I've offered it in other threads.  The difference here is I don't get bored and write an anti-Hurney screed every other day. 

I look at this franchise with optimism, because I'm emotionally invested in it's success and I don't want to let an entity over which I have absolutely no control mess up my day or plunge me into depression.  If that happens, I would rather walk away.  I want Hurney to be better than he once was.  I wanted Gettleman to be great.  I want to believe that we're going to patch our holes in Free Agency, and I want to believe that every single draft pick is going to contribute, with a fair number of them getting to the pro bowl.  

I wanted to believe that Kerry Collins would get his act together.  I wanted to believe that George Seiffert would bring his winning ways to Carolina.  One of my happiest team memories was Jake Delhomme running out to take over for Rodney Peete in that Jacksonville game in 2003.  I didn't know it then, but the way that game ended sealed image that into my mind.  I wanted to believe he would come back from Tommy John surgery.  I wanted to believe that Dwayne Jarrett was the answer at WR2.  I've wanted to believe in so many things that haven't come true that it's fine to be labeled a fool.  But I would rather be a fool who believes than a so-called fan who does nothing but sit back and complain.

Take a xanex, and try to enjoy the team again, will ya?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Cyberjag said:

I've offered it in other threads.  The difference here is I don't get bored and write an anti-Hurney screed every other day. 

I look at this franchise with optimism, because I'm emotionally invested in it's success and I don't want to let an entity over which I have absolutely no control mess up my day or plunge me into depression.  If that happens, I would rather walk away.  I want Hurney to be better than he once was.  I wanted Gettleman to be great.  I want to believe that we're going to patch our holes in Free Agency, and I want to believe that every single draft pick is going to contribute, with a fair number of them getting to the pro bowl.  

I wanted to believe that Kerry Collins would get his act together.  I wanted to believe that George Seiffert would bring his winning ways to Carolina.  One of my happiest team memories was Jake Delhomme running out to take over for Rodney Peete in that Jacksonville game in 2003.  I didn't know it then, but the way that game ended sealed image that into my mind.  I wanted to believe he would come back from Tommy John surgery.  I wanted to believe that Dwayne Jarrett was the answer at WR2.  I've wanted to believe in so many things that haven't come true that it's fine to be labeled a fool.  But I would rather be a fool who believes than a so-called fan who does nothing but sit back and complain.

Take a xanex, and try to enjoy the team again, will ya?

If I weren't enjoying it, I wouldn't be here. And posting more because I'm home sick, not just bored.

There's optimism and there's blind optimism. One is good, the other not so much.

I'm absolutely hoping for better things, but it's not like we can wipe history clean. Nor should we.

Well at least not till a new owner is in place...

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 hour ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Thats all gettleman did when he first got here, but he got his b**** stroked for "fixing the cap" 

Dont see a difference

If you think that is all Dollar Store Dave did in his first few months here you weren't paying attention and if "fixing the cap" was so easy, why didn't Hurney do it himself? 

[Saca312]

4 hours ago, Smithers said:

.  I wish we would have kept him for sure, but to say that he would consistently have the same result as last season may be a stretch.  

And you're acting like Graham Gano will provide any sort of consistency as well? Given his track record, I have my doubts in that area.

[Smithers]

Just now, Saca312 said:

And you're acting like Graham Gano will provide any sort of consistency as well? Given his track record, I have my doubts in that area.

I'm not acting like that at all...I don't trust Gano at all.  I cringe every single time he steps onto the field for a FG or XP.