If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[LinvilleGorge]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

With old, ineffective players responsible for our pass rush.

Plus we had our head coach - whom everybody accepts is a solid defensive coordinator - take over the defensive playcalls. Did things get any better?

You think everyone magically got old over the course of an off-season? Even Luke has looked off for the majority of the season and he's in his prime at 27. The D completely mailed it in after that Pittsburgh game. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You think everyone magically got old over the course of an off-season? Even Luke has looked off for the majority of the season and he's in his prime at 27. The D completely mailed it in after that Pittsburgh game. 

I think players got old and the GM failed to account for it.

[Sgt Schultz]

All this talk about which dog can raise his leg and mark the fence post higher, Gettleman or Hurney, is all fine and well.  But the last time I checked, nobody was talking about canning Hurney AND hiring Gettleman away from the Giants.  I doubt Tepper is pacing the floor in his office thinking "I wonder if I can get Gettleman back....or should I keep Marty?"

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Regardless of what you think of Gettleman, he is no longer the Panthers GM.

Hopefully, we'll be able to say the same for Hurney a few weeks from now.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think players got old and the GM failed to account for it.

I know you don't like Hurney and I don't either, but your defense of all things Gettleman is puzzling. I didn't think he should've been fired either, but I also have to admit that the further away we get, the worse a lot of his moves look and the Giants still look like a complete dumpster fire too. Gettleman is better than Hurney, but a big part of our DL issues is his high pick DL busts in Ealy, Hall, and Butler. It wasn't that he didn't try to address the DL, it's that he tried and failed.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

All this talk about which dog can raise his leg and mark the fence post higher, Gettleman or Hurney, is all fine and well.  But the last time I checked, nobody was talking about canning Hurney AND hiring Gettleman away from the Giants.  I doubt Tepper is pacing the floor in his office thinking "I wonder if I can get Gettleman back....or should I keep Marty?"

Pretty much.

Gettleman has a job. If Marty is fired he'll probably get a new job. It just won't be as a personnel guy for an NFL team. only Jerry Richardson was stupid enough to hire him for that.

If we get a new GM, I'd bet on it being Omar Khan. Not my first choice, but one that I could live with.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Rivera has had three winning seasons in his eight-year career. Every one of the three came with rosters that were built by Dave Gettleman.

Basically, you can win with Rivera as coach if you have a strong enough GM to compensate for his weaknesses. Hurney isn't that guy.

Since I don't really want a coach whose weaknesses I have to work around, the best answer truly is to get rid of both of them, but if you have to choose one, no question you fire Hurney

I think Gettleman has certainly not proved to be a strong GM in hindsight. Much like the he had to deal with a turd sandwich that was left to him, and he did well initially, Hurney is having to deal with somewhat of a turd sandwich that Gettleman left. Hurney seems to have done pretty well so far, although I suspect his early successes will give way to eventual failures. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I know you don't like Hurney and I don't either, but your defense of all things Gettleman is puzzling. I didn't think he should've been fired either, but I also have to admit that the further away we get, the worse a lot of his moves look and the Giants still look like a complete dumpster fire too. Gettleman is better than Hurney, but a big part of our DL issues is his high pick DL busts in Ealy, Hall, and Butler. It wasn't that he didn't try to address the DL, it's that he tried and failed.

The point isn't to analyze moves. It's to analyze results. You can praise or pick apart moves till the cows come home. All that matters is did we win or lose.

With Gettleman, we won. With Hurney, we don't. That's really all I care about.

Gettleman isn't coming back. Hurney should never have been rehired. Correct that mistake and we're good.

[ncfan]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pretty much.

Gettleman has a job. If Marty is fired he'll probably get a new job. It just won't be as a personnel guy for an NFL team. only Jerry Richardson was stupid enough to hire him for that.

If we get a new GM, I'd bet on it being Omar Khan. Not my first choice, but one that I could live with.

Will he though.

Gettleman got a job right after being fired.

Hurney didnt even get a phone call after being fired, until his buddy who was forced to fire him called him back.  

What makes you think he is going to get another job.

Again this isnt a defending Gettleman thread.  He did botch the picks such as Butler and Ealy.  

But Hurney was fired for a reason, he never got a phone call from anyone else for a reason.

This team magically started winning after he left........for a reason.

His mistakes last time were horrible handling of FA and drafting.

His FA in his first offseason has been a flop with Poe, Smith, CJ Anderson, Searcy (yes he's been hurt, but showed nothing prior to injury),etc

 

Some of these people who really think Hurney should still be here, clearly point blank, didnt start following this team until after he was gone the first time

They wernt here during the pickles years, the David Carr/Matt Moore years were Dark......  Real DARK

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think Gettleman has certainly not proved to be a strong GM in hindsight. Much like the he had to deal with a turd sandwich that was left to him, and he did well initially, Hurney is having to deal with somewhat of a turd sandwich that Gettleman left. Hurney seems to have done pretty well so far, although I suspect his early successes will give way to eventual failures. 

The roster that Hurney was left went 11-5. A year later, we're 6-7 and looking at 7-9 / 6-10.

How is that "doing well so far"?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, ncfan said:

Will he though.

Gettleman got a job right after being fired.

Hurney didnt even get a phone call after being fired, until his buddy who was forced to fire him called him back.  

What makes you think he is going to get another job.

Again this isnt a defending Gettleman thread.  He did botch the picks such as Butler and Ealy.  

But Hurney was fired for a reason, he never got a phone call from anyone else for a reason.

This team magically started winning after he left........for a reason.

His mistakes last time were horrible handling of FA and drafting.

His FA in his first offseason has been a flop with Poe, Smith, CJ Anderson, Searcy (yes he's been hurt, but showed nothing prior to injury),etc

My point was that he won't get another job managing an NFL roster.

He might get another radio job.

[hepcat]

I'd keep Hurney. Dude is money in the 1st round and made solid moves this offseason. The problems with this team are clearly coaching and motivation related which Hurney has nothing to do with. He put talent on the field. Rivera's job is to win with it. He didn't. 

[ncfan]

Just now, hepcat said:

I'd keep Hurney. Dude is money in the 1st round and made solid moves this offseason. The problems with this team are clearly coaching and motivation related which Hurney has nothing to do with. He put talent on the field. Rivera's job is to win with it. He didn't. 

Solid moves this offseason?

Poe, CJ Anderson, Searcy, Smith and his 5 mil contract  were great moves weren't they?

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

The problem was never just those things. The problem is that Hurney doesn't know how to to build a complete roster.

He was handed a roster that went 11-5 and made the playoffs. In a single offseason, he managed to turn it into a roster with major deficiencies, one that's likely about to complete a historical collapse.

He's not good enough, and there's zero reason to give him more seasons to prove that. especially not when you realize that the longer he was in charge than last time, the worse things got.

The major deficiencies in the roster were also relics of the Gettleman era and not all Hurney's doing. The secondary woes? That would be Gettleman(all brought in by Gettleman except for Reid and Jackson). The pass rushing woes are a mix. Addison was a Hurney pick but Gettleman is responsible for his extension. Peppers was a Hurney guy and was brought back by Hurney. On the interior, Short was a Gettleman guy and extended by Gettleman. Kyle Love? Gettleman. Poe? Hurney. Butler? Gettleman. The offensive line woes? A mixed bag. Some of the bums are Gettleman's fault and some Hurney's. The worst player and worst contract on that line definitely fall in Gettleman's lap. 

The truth is you cannot blame Hurney for this offseason any more than you could blame Gettleman for having to dumpster dive his first 2-3 years here. They both got left a mismanaged roster. For Gettleman it was having to dig out of cap hell. For Hurney it has been having to deal with a very aging roster and holes that had been ignored or mismanaged by Gettleman(OT, CB specifically). They both deserve ample credit and ample blame. 

But let's not create some revisionist history and blame Hurney for this season's struggles. If anything, he has been maybe the best he has ever been in both stints. He tried to fill our secondary hole in free agency(old trench foot). It fell through. He drafted our current best WR and current best CB. He made critical signings mid-season on the OL and at S to try and salvage something. And Clark and Reid have been damn good for mid-season dumpster dives. Literally vintage Gettleman style dumpster dive successes. 

The fact is, we have enough talent to win these games. But we aren't for a variety of reasons. Injuries has been a big one, poor coaching and poor execution have been other big ones(obviously). I simply do not believe that we have seen the successes at some of these positions and with some of these players and suddenly they are just bums. In my eyes, a lot of this has to do with coaching. I think we have seen the biggest concession in that regard with Ron frantically making coaching changes and role changes during this stretch. That leads me to believe he realizes that most are going to perceive this as a coaching issue, as well.