4-3 vs. 3-4: What moves do you make for the front 7?

[Moo Daeng]

9 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

After the defensive clusterf!&*% that was last season, how would we recognize if the 3-4 caused us to be worse.

I have little to no confidence in Washington being able to make that transition as DC, even with Rivera making the play calls. It wasn't just the play calling that was bad, Washington didn't have that defense even close to ready... it was like the first hour and 15 minutes of The Waterboy back there with us hoping Luke was going to be able to pass that test.

If we do switch to a 3-4, the change will have to start at the DC position before we rearrange even a single player.

 

We could be worse than 15th in yards, 13th in first downs, and 19th in points. There are 32 teams.  It would be quite easy to recognize being worse 

[ForJimmy]

I can’t see us getting Clay Matthews since we are trying to get younger... He is still a solid player, but should be declining every year at this point.

[TheMaulClaw]

8 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

That is the problem ppl make.. Going by body type instead of skillsets.. If you actually watch both players video.. You can see that Miller types have different ways to get to the QB.. Addison is a undersize 43 DE .. He bulk his body up to hold up to the run so he could be a every down DE.. He doesn't have the lateral movements or back peddle of a 3/4 OLB.. He can't play in pass coverage which is part of the job for Miller and players like him.. Remember Superbowl when he'd drop back and cover Tolbert or run with Olsen? Addison has no chance in doing that.. 

Well...I've blacked out the Superbowl because it was one of the worse games I've ever watched and I'm still pissed about the turf.  Also Broncos also had Ware causing big time problems.  That said ...look at Pep.  He was a 4-3 guy for a decade before he switched to a 3-4 in Green Bay and he was able to make the conversion.  I supposed it's up to the coaches.  Addison bulked up to stop the run...but he could drop that weight.  He is athletic.  Neither one of us have taken a stopwatch to his cone drill or back pedal.  The coaches would have more intel on that.  I'd also assume there are various personnel packages for a 3-4.  Meaning you may have a guy at the OLB spot specialized in the pass rush and another guy who's more of a typical cover backer.  

Either way...what makes Von Miller so great is his pass rush ability not his cover ability.

[Icege]

For me, it isn't so much Mario Addison's body type nor skill set but the $7.25M that can be saved by cutting him.

If he's able to stand up and drop back into coverage, then let's restructure him and have Haynes spell him while Poe, Short, and Butler man the line. Haynes could sub in for Addison on 3rd down, and I think that Luke/Shaq will be just fine with whomever we put back there with them. That other LB spot is going to be either Carter Jr, Smith, or Mayo if he's retained and even then, they're going to be subbing out for whomever the nickel is.

While this was a thread meant for the front 7, I think that the nickel position is going to get a long, hard look. 

As it is, we currently have the personnel to march out a 3-4 (Poe/Short/Butler, Kuechly/Shaq/CarterJr/Addison or Haynes) but still need a DE for a 4-3.

I expect an impact free agent at DE if we go base 4-3. If we're going to go 3-4, let's see about freeing up some money from Addison's contract.

[Sub Zero]

1 hour ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Well...I've blacked out the Superbowl because it was one of the worse games I've ever watched and I'm still pissed about the turf.  Also Broncos also had Ware causing big time problems.  That said ...look at Pep.  He was a 4-3 guy for a decade before he switched to a 3-4 in Green Bay and he was able to make the conversion.  I supposed it's up to the coaches.  Addison bulked up to stop the run...but he could drop that weight.  He is athletic.  Neither one of us have taken a stopwatch to his cone drill or back pedal.  The coaches would have more intel on that.  I'd also assume there are various personnel packages for a 3-4.  Meaning you may have a guy at the OLB spot specialized in the pass rush and another guy who's more of a typical cover backer.  

Either way...what makes Von Miller so great is his pass rush ability not his cover ability.

Pep is a freak of nature let's not waste our time comparing anybody to him.. Not to many 6'6 290 guys can run a 4'5 jump out the gym and be as strong as a ox... Pep could have been a TE if he wanted to back then.. Do you see Addison do that?? And even when Pep was playing here at the beginning of his career.. He showed the ability to drop back as a 43 DE and run with RBS and TE's .. 

Example: The play against Denver back in the days.. When covered the RB in the flat made a Interception and went 96 yards the other way..

[mc52beast]

18 hours ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

Unless Tepper has told Ron he’s giving him time to get the right pieces

[mc52beast]

There’s always a chance of playing a “hybrid “ defense where Ron mixes it up between the 4-3 and 3-4

[Sub Zero]

38 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

There’s always a chance of playing a “hybrid “ defense where Ron mixes it up between the 4-3 and 3-4

Now I like that.. Add some young fast Pass rush who can rush from the dirt and standing up.. Moving then around would be great..

[Trill OG]

3 hours ago, Icege said:

For me, it isn't so much Mario Addison's body type nor skill set but the $7.25M that can be saved by cutting him.

 If we're going to go 3-4, let's see about freeing up some money from Addison's contract.

I agree with this. If we are going for the 3-4 Addison has to be cut. We have the personnel to run a 3-4 right now. Which means we would probably draft a OLB type player who can rush the passer and play coverage.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Well...I've blacked out the Superbowl because it was one of the worse games I've ever watched and I'm still pissed about the turf.  Also Broncos also had Ware causing big time problems.  That said ...look at Pep.  He was a 4-3 guy for a decade before he switched to a 3-4 in Green Bay and he was able to make the conversion.  I supposed it's up to the coaches.  Addison bulked up to stop the run...but he could drop that weight.  He is athletic.  Neither one of us have taken a stopwatch to his cone drill or back pedal.  The coaches would have more intel on that.  I'd also assume there are various personnel packages for a 3-4.  Meaning you may have a guy at the OLB spot specialized in the pass rush and another guy who's more of a typical cover backer.  

Either way...what makes Von Miller so great is his pass rush ability not his cover ability.

Peppers is a very special athlete though. Just because Julius Peppers can do something doesn't necessarily mean that a Mario Addison can do it, no disrespect intended toward Mario.

[pantherclaw]

18 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

Wait a minute?? I've seen this opinion more than a few times as well.. I don't get it.. Addison is not a 3/4 OLB.. There is more to the job than being a speed rusher.. You also need to be able to drop back in pass coverage and not just zone.. Man to man as well.. Addison has  shown no ability to in that.. 

And if any player on the roster can make this change seamlessly it's Luke..

Size speed and intelligence Luke has it all to be a 3/4 ILB.. Him and Poe are the only players we have to fit that scheme..

Must not pay attention when our team plays defense, as Mario has indeed,dropped back to cover before. 

 

[TheMaulClaw]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Peppers is a very special athlete though. Just because Julius Peppers can do something doesn't necessarily mean that a Mario Addison can do it, no disrespect intended toward Mario.

Peppers is just an example.  Clowney is the same way did the same thing.  No way would I ever say that Addison is comparable to Peppers. I'm just saying that Pep went to Green Bay when he was like 34 and made the switch.  We don't know that Addison can't.  In my earlier post I said that I'd prefer to wait one more season before we make the switch and I mean that.  Most of these top pass rushers that come out of the draft....regardless of what system they played in college will get picked up in a non-discriminant manner by any NFL team running any system.

 

This isn't suggesting that Addison is some hall of famer...but he's a decent pass rusher and his strength is his quickness.

[Jimmy]

Shaq just might be a beast in a 3-4, fast for a DL/LB...teach him some Von Miller type moves and I think he eats all day

[Sub Zero]

7 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Must not pay attention when our team plays defense, as Mario has indeed,dropped back to cover before. 

 

No I saw him ..  my opinion doesn't change on that..