clearing up this kyle allen vs cam newton battle

[mav1234]

25 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Why do people keep bring up records? Yesterday we won in spite of Allen, last week we won cause of Allen. Wins without context doesn’t mean sh*t.

Allen's move on Watt won the game for us.  Yes, he was bailed out by the D, and had costly turnovers.  But those fumbles are at least partially on the OL.  He has to hold on to the damn ball better. 

But he had some excellent throws and the Watt move is truly memorable, so to say we won in spite of him is unfair.

[ickmule]

all I know is Allen is 3-0 and Cam is 0-9 in his last 9.  The eye test also shows me the team is playing hard for Allen and weren’t so much for Cam over his last 9.   

[ickmule]

12 minutes ago, thebigcat said:

100%
 

when Cam gets rattled, he’s checking out mentally

Baffles me why everyone can’t see that.  

[KillaCamNewton]

good post OP. another thing to consider is A LOT of these "fans" were not Panthers fans before Cam and will not be Panthers fans after he leaves. Cam definitely helped make us a nationally relevant and popular team but he also brought a lot of casuals on board. those types would rather us lose these games with Allen just to have some kind of Cam Newton vindication. i want nothing more than Cam to come back fully healthy and set the league on fire again, but until then Kyle Allen is tasked with keeping the season alive

[GoobyPls]

4 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Allen's move on Watt won the game for us.  Yes, he was bailed out by the D, and had costly turnovers.  But those fumbles are at least partially on the OL.  He has to hold on to the damn ball better. 

But he had some excellent throws and the Watt move is truly memorable, so to say we won in spite of him is unfair.

That’s one play out of 60 that we ran. And even if got sacked the way Slye was kicking he would probably made it. And I counted two good throws outside that it was all slants or dump offs to Mccaffrey.

 

Sorry but no QB should get credit for a performance that poor. That game was 80% defense 20% Mccaffrey and Slye. I think Grier could of won us that game 

[Wolfpack352]

There is a battle here?  All i know is if the tables were flipped....say Kyle was on the roster as a starter as long as Cam has been and been playing poorly like Cam, then Cam came in and has a 3-0 start, we'd be riding the Cam train and glad for the wins.  I need to see more of Kyle but right now I'm riding that train because I love wins!  The Cam lovebirds are sour from all the Kyle lovebirds comments, but should and IF Kyle start tanking.....hhmmm....whose going to be guilty of the same thing?

[mav1234]

14 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

That’s one play out of 60 that we ran. And even if got sacked the way Slye was kicking he would probably made it. And I counted two good throws outside that it was all slants or dump offs to Mccaffrey.

 

Sorry but no QB should get credit for a performance that poor. That game was 80% defense 20% Mccaffrey and Slye. I think Grier could of won us that game 

If Allen is sacked there, its like a 60+ yard FG, and houston gets the ball back with  2min on the clock regardless... and Slye, while amazing, is going to have a limit some place, haha. 

You are overselling the fumbles. They were bad, but look what Watson, one of the most highly touted young players in the league, did. This was a sloppy, defensive battle for both teams.

Allen had more than 2 good throws.

We won because of a team effort led by an incredible D.  Saying we won in spite of Allen's turnovers is fair, but fans that think we won in spite of his overall play aren't being reasonable I don't think.

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

If Allen is sacked there, its like a 60+ yard FG, and houston gets the ball back with  2min on the clock regardless... and Slye, while amazing, is going to have a limit some place, haha. 

You are overselling the fumbles. They were bad, but look what Watson, one of the most highly touted young players in the league, did.

Allen had more than 2 good throws.

We won because of a team effort led by an incredible D.  Saying we won in spite of Allen's turnovers is fair, but fans that think we won in spite of his overall play aren't being reasonable I don't think.

It would have been about a 58 yarder from what I can tell, within his range.

An Watson played horrible, so I don’t know where your getting at?

 

Sorry but if you have 3 turnover, zero TD and don’t do nothing for the majority of the game I’m not giving you the benefit of the doubt. Like I said put 90% of QBs in the league would have won that game yesterday including backups.

[CPF4LIFE]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

ummmmm... hmmmm

I agree Cam is the better QB when healthy. Not sure I can agree here now though. Allen has threaded needles I haven't seen Cam thread in 4 seasons.

4 seasons tho? Extremely disagree on that.

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Saca312 said:

he's already proven he's worth the whole franchise after saving rivera's ass multiple multiple times and keeping it in relevancy to the point he's sacrificed his body and basically his potential future and health.

You know that's not how it works, Sac.

You're paid based on what you're going to do, not what you've done. "Thank you" contracts are something only stupid teams do.

Given Newton's age and injury history over the past few years, it's perfectly valid to question the wisdom of giving him a big money contract.

I know everybody thinks it sucks (me included) but that's football.

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

ummmmm... hmmmm

I agree Cam is the better QB when healthy. Not sure I can agree here now though. Allen has threaded needles I haven't seen Cam thread in 4 seasons.

I've seen him throw super accurate passes. I've also seen him throw passes where I'm not sure who or what he was aiming at.

That's the kind of passer he always was, a Favre / Elway type.

[Pimpdaddy]

Each one playing comes with his own set of consequences...comes down to which malady can we live with....  If Cam aint running it lessens his effectiveness...but its also the reason hes busted up and most likely will never be the same. We want the electrifying Cam of old and that aint gonna happen.  I like the way Allen distributes the ball and the touch he has but folds like paper mache....if Watt gets to him yesterday hes in the hospital with a concave chest and then we'd be looking at Grier... Let Cam really heal and ride with the kid for now...we'll evaluate Cam next year...cause i godda say hes bringing bad energy just breaking the huddle... like hes dreading the snap cause he nows hes not healthy and can't do the things he wants to.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You know that's not how it works, Sac.

You're paid based on what you're going to do, not what you've done. "Thank you" contracts are something only stupid teams do.

Given Newton's age and injury history over the past few years, it's perfectly valid to question the wisdom of giving him a big money contract.

I know everybody thinks it sucks (me included) but that's football.

I agree 100% here Scot.

@Saca312, I agree with your overall sentiment, that Cam is underrated by the vast majority of our fanbase simply because there has never been a QB like him. 

Having said that, I think you are overrating the current version of Cam. He hasn't been able to stay healthy in 3 years, he is missing wide open receivers regularly, he isn't a threat to run so defenses can focus on stopping the pass, and we have no idea if he'll ever return to pre-injury wrecking ball Cam. 

Injuries have made him inconsistent, and in doing so, robbed us of the stability of having a franchise QB. It's unfortunate but it is the truth. There are legitimate questions with Cam's game and his viability as our team's QB MOVING FORWARD while you seem to be stuck evaluating the past. You can't argue that Cam Newton wasn't an awesome QB before all the injuries. But right now, I won't fault anyone for questioning his legitimacy as a QB moving forward because there are too many "What-ifs" to give a definitive answer. 

[Steve_Smith_Sr.]

3 hours ago, Saca312 said:

gotta wonder how many saints fans are pulling for teddy bridgewater to be the full time starter over drew brees, even though it makes perfect sense when you factor in brees' contract + age.

bet a whole lot less than panther fans calling for cam's head. 

Cam Newton is not Drew Brees... not even close.  If Cam had Drew's accuracy everyone on this board would be screaming to sign him to a big dollar contract.  Fact is he doesn't and is the 3rd best QB in the NFC south.