clearing up this kyle allen vs cam newton battle

[Peppers90 NC]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

Tell me more how Allen brushed off 3 fumble turn overs and wins the game throwing 0 touchdowns.. did Allen win that game or did the defense? This is clearly bias.

The team won the game, he made some plays as well as others especially during closing minutes.

[hepcat]

1 minute ago, Peppers90 NC said:

I'm not really sure why people think this is a crazy possibility. I've heard things as well and of course no player is going to say it publicly. 

Yea it's like...do you like all of your co-workers, or your boss? No of course not. But you can tolerate them enough to work with them. Same thing applies to a football team. WHOA REALLY HOT TAKE.

[grimesgoat]

21 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

ill reiterate my points:

healthy cam is better than kyle allen ever was or will be.

kyle allen is still a decent qb.

i don't know if cam will be healthy after this. determine contract based on health. if not, go the cheaper and wiser route. if cam's back at peak form, should pay him a decent deal based on that and don't let a franchise talent walk and become drew bree's heir.

end of story.

 

End of story?

This is a silly speculative statement.  We don't know if/when Cam will ever be healthy.  We have no idea how good Allen can be.  He's 23 with 3 NFL starts under his belt.  Are you suggesting he's peaked?

To me, "healthy" Cam means he's back to running for 500 yds/season with a 60% completion rate and a TD/INT rate around 25/10.  Without the running, those numbers look pretty average and certainly not worth 20+ million per.

 

[Peppers90 NC]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

“Allen hasn’t outperformed Cam. Here’s one clip of arguably his singular worst play of his entire short career for proof”? This is what happens when you fall down the rabbit hole of Billy M Twitter analysis.

Your posts in here exceedingly reveal that you’re hardly giving some objective analysis. You’ve already projected Allen’s entire career and ceiling based off of 3 games.

to argue he hasnt outperformed Cam just loses the little credibility he already had. Kind of embarrassing actually. But you know, some people will interpret that I just tried to say Kyle is better than Cam which is also nonsense. Put Cam's 2nd half pass attempts against the Buccs and it's way worse than that weak attempt.

[PootieNunu]

47 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

allen hasn't outperformed cam either

 

I guess thats why when he ducked under Watts sack he looked down field and completed a pass. If you want to see someone with no pocket presence  check out jimmy clausen

[Jeremy Igo]

16 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

We don't know if/when Cam will ever be healthy. 

 

We have no idea how good Allen can be.

 

 

These two points are accurate. 

[micnificent28]

52 minutes ago, hepcat said:

All valid points, but one thing you did not touch on was how the team has responded to each QB. The team looked depressed and unmotivated playing with Cam Newton this season and late last season. The energy he usually has wasn't there and it permeated down the entire roster. Yes, the injuries probably had a major role to play in that. But you can't discount the attitude change on the field, the change to Allen has made a positive impact in that area.

Cam is a polarizing guy. There are players on the roster that don't care for his personality, just like there are some fans who don't either. Cam is weirdly attention seeking and that can rub people the wrong way. But when the team wins, no one cares. When they lose, those problems get amplified.

Let's just hope Cam comes back healthy, regains his MVP form, and leads this team into the playoffs. Because if he comes back and the team looks depressed and lethargic again, he's done. 

I think that part is the part that is societies problem and not cams. You see what you want in Cams actions. I see him being himself and playing with a swagger that we really haven't seen at the position since say Broadway Joe in NY. Nobody said he was a asshat for wearing those fur coats and such.. he is still thought of positively for it.

Because Cam is outwardly and unapologetically himself people say hes selfish only cares of himself and all that crap you say" oh he wearing those clothes because hes depressed and seeking attention". That's a double standard.

[micnificent28]

8 minutes ago, Peppers90 NC said:

to argue he hasnt outperformed Cam just loses the little credibility he already had. Kind of embarrassing actually. But you know, some people will interpret that I just tried to say Kyle is better than Cam which is also nonsense. Put Cam's 2nd half pass attempts against the Buccs and it's way worse than that weak attempt.

Well to be Fair cam played the rams who were in the super bowl and the Bucs hung 55 up on them and won.. Allen has been waltzing in the disney land part of the schedule so I don't even think it's fair to compare the two on a difficulty scale. Also little looked more competent at tackle than William's who was getting bulldozed by shaq barrett. Lots of factors.

[Jeremy Igo]

For the record I have heard players say Cam is a strange bird.

Also for the record I have never heard a player say they didn't like Cam.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

For the record I have heard players say Cam is a strange bird.

Also for the record I have never heard a player say they didn't like Cam.

Would they, though?

Not suggesting they don't but even if they didn't would you really expect them to talk about it?

[Peppers90 NC]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Well to be Fair cam played the rams who were in the super bowl and the Bucs hung 55 up on them and won.. Allen has been waltzing in the disney land part of the schedule so I don't even think it's fair to compare the two on a difficulty scale. Also little looked more competent at tackle than William's who was getting bulldozed by shaq barrett. Lots of factors.

The biggest and mosts important factor is that Cam is hurt. Once/if he heals, then I think it will be a different story. But to this point, both playing two games, regardless of whatever reason/excuse anyone wants to try and do mental gymnastics to make up, Kyle has outperformed Cam. Luckily we aren't 0-4 right now but back into the hunt and with our defense, we should be in most games.

[micnificent28]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

For the record I have heard players say Cam is a strange bird.

Also for the record I have never heard a player say they didn't like Cam.

I think the whole idea of not liking Cam is a misunderstanding based off society. Cam's peers millenials or whatever would take his actions and dressing style as "drip" or "swag". The first down thing the dab, all that is cool to millenials because they see it as having style and confidence. Now you take all that stuff he does and let someone one not of this generation or culture look at it.

It comes off arrogant and unheard of. "Why doesn't he shut up and play the game like its ment to be played". "He only cares about himself and wants to draw attention to himself" "Payton Manning would never do those things hes a real quarterback" the older the generation the less relatable Cam comes off. People hate what they don't understand. I think Cams a great guy and been a model citizen but it depends on who you ask and when they were born..

[Fox007]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

For the record I have heard players say Cam is a strange bird.

Also for the record I have never heard a player say they didn't like Cam.

Well if Smitty did almost or did punch him that'd be another person Smitty don't like. I don't think Smitty's "we are two different people" speech is an endorsement either. 

Jake may be the only QB Smitty didn't want to beat up and he probably actually did want to beat up QB Jake just not person Jake also given his "you know I like you, but not the QB" on the sidelines that time.
 

[Peppers90 NC]

1 minute ago, Fox007 said:

Well if Smitty did almost or did punch him that'd be another person Smitty don't like. I don't think Smitty's "we are two different people" speech is an endorsement either. 

Jake may be the only QB Smitty didn't want to beat up and he probably actually did want to beat up QB Jake just not person Jake also given his "you know I like you, but not the QB" on the sidelines that time.
 

I think Smitty has resentment against 1st or 2nd round draft picks thinking they may be entitled or something weird. Whereas he knows Jake had to scrap his way into the league. Just my two pennies.