How we got here

[Mr. Scot]

Back when Mike Shula took over the OC job, he chose to build the offense around a system that Cam Newton was accustomed to. The idea at the time was to give him something he knew and could work with then slowly transition from that to more of a pro style offense.

Except near as I can tell, that second part never happened.

Instead, we basically built everything around adapting a read-option, college style attack for pro use. 

Mind you, we did have success with that approach (especially in 2015) but when somebody figured it out, we didn't know how to counter.

And then of course, we dumped Shula for Norv Turner.

Norv didn't hesitate. He set to task teaching Newton to run a more pro style passing attack immediately. It's generally accepted that he made a few adjustments to accommodate Newton, but people that were familiar with Norv's system (Troy Aikman, for example) had no trouble recognizing what they were seeing on the field.

Judging by the first eight games of the 2018 season, it worked pretty well.

But now, it's starting to look like the wear and tear from running that college style offense for all those years has taken a toll.

So I'm starting to wonder about a couple of things...

Did Shula stick with what he did because it was working, or because he didn't think Newton was able to adapt? My gut says the answer is option one, but I can't help wondering about option two 

Norv Turner proved that Newton could indeed handle running a pro-style offense, and more than just handle it, thrive in it! All that because Norv wasn't afraid to challenge him.

I wonder if Shula was.

Had we followed through on the original plan, would we still be where we are today or someplace better?

We'll never know, but I think it's a valid question.

[PantherBrew]

Whats so weird about it all is that if we change one game.  One game. All of these conversations and things are different.  It is quite possible that Shula is still here.  

 

I fuking hate thinking about that game. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, PantherBrew said:

Whats so weird about it all is that if we change one game.  One game. All of these conversations and things are different.  It is quite possible that Shula is still here.  

 

I fuking hate thinking about that game. 

Two games if you count the Atlanta game.

[Waldo]

Going away from what works to what may not work is hard, especially when your job is on the line. The problem that was always known here was that what worked had an unknown experation date. A HB can't be a power runner forever, and a QB has a lot more issues to deal with from that usage than a typical powerback.

My opinion, we should have switched to the pro style system no later than his 3rd year with the second year being a transition year.

I just hope this is not another missed opportunity because I was freaking excited to see Cam grow into the pro style offense and get away from the read-option offense.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

Going away from what works to what may not work is hard, especially when your job is on the line. The problem that was always known here was that what worked had an unknown expectation date. A HB can't be a power runner forever, and a QB has a lot more issues to deal with from that usage than a typical powerback.

My opinion, we should have switched to the pro style system no later than his 3rd year with the second year being a transition year.

I just hope this is not another missed opportunity because I was freaking excited to see Cam grow into the pro style offense and get away from the read-option offense.

It's all speculation, but I will say one thing that I feel comfortable is true:

You don't know what someone is capable of until you challenge them.

[LinvilleGorge]

I think Shula just completely relied on Cam to carry his offense. Everyone knew that as Cam aged he would have to evolve his game to run less and become more of a pocket passer. Shula just let all the praise he got during the '15 season go to his head so he doubled down on the same approach even after Wade Phillips badly exposed the flaws in that approach in SB50.

[Mr. Scot]

Probably worth noting, Turner doesn't really seem to be afraid to challenge Kyle Allen either.

The usual MO when you've got a young, inexperienced QB is to scale back the offense.

If they've been doing that, I haven't seen it. Nor have I heard anybody mention it.

[BrianS]

20 minutes ago, Nesbro1 said:

I saw this mentioned when talking about his good start to the season last year.

He only had one 300 yard game leading to Pittsburgh. 

No deep passes.

That could be a possible tell that even if healthy he could be limited based on his passing skill.

Actually, I'm not sure CN1's shoulder was 100% last year, even before "the hit".

What I am sure of is that there was a time when he had absolutely unquestioned arm talent.  Accuracy and touch were his problems, not arm strength.  Today, I'm not sure we'll see "that" Cam ever again.  Just a guess, but even in camp when his arm looked better than it has in a long time, it still wasn't "that" arm.  It was adequate, but not strong to the point of unquestioned.

[Bartin]

20 minutes ago, Nesbro1 said:

I saw this mentioned when talking about his good start to the season last year.

He only had one 300 yard game leading to Pittsburgh. 

No deep passes.

That could be a possible tell that even if healthy he could be limited based on his passing skill.

People always blame the Steelers game and the TJ Watt hit but truth is that Cam had already been on the injury report for 3 weeks with the shoulder before that game and in the Ravens game got subbed out for a Hail Mary attempt. His shoulder was already dead well before that game and hit.

We did try a couple deep passes in the opener against the Cowboys then again at Atlanta to Torrey but they were wildly off and we went away from it completely after that. He also tried one against the Redskins on a scramble drill that was underthrown and intercepted. Not to mention that Cam played well in the two games after the Steelers game against the Lions and Seahawks.

The real turning point in the season was when defenses realized that Cam had zero ability to throw down the field so they focused entirely on shutting down our short game. There were reports after the season of DBs laughing at our WRs and straight up telling them that they knew that Cam can’t throw deep. Cam’s arm got a little weaker as the season went on but the true turning point was the defenses picking up on it and taking away the dink and dunk he was so successful with in the first half of the year.

[Peppers90 NC]

Cam was always going to run the ball, that's who he is and partly what makes him great.

One common complaint is that coaches try to force players to fit their systems. Our coaches changed what they do to allow the player to make plays the best way he can, so that means they changed for the player.

Not sure why they should receive flack for that. Lack of adjustments sure, but the system just seems like bitching for the joy of bitching.

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Actually, I'm not sure CN1's shoulder was 100% last year, even before "the hit".

A loooooot of people have that same question.

[Moo Daeng]

7 minutes ago, Bartin said:

People always blame the Steelers game and the TJ Watt hit but truth is that Cam had already been on the injury report for 3 weeks with the shoulder before that game and in the Ravens game got subbed out for a Hail Mary attempt. His shoulder was already dead well before that game and hit.

 

Voth was talking about the deep ball during pre season. He got ridiculed for dissing cam.

His shoulder was discussed on sports radio when he first landed on injury report.

The message board format seems to focus on one thing while missing what is  obvious in plain site.

[Toomers]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

A loooooot of people have that same question.

He hasn’t been close to 100% since he chased down Trovon Reed on an INT return while KB was looking for a hot dog vendor. Take away that play, and Cam just has minor injuries that he, and most players can play through. 

  That play and Michael Oher’s career ending concussion are the two most significant reasons for the decline since 2015. Just bad luck. No one to blame. 

  Now it’s Greg Little. I don’t recall him missing a game at Ole Miss and he is on his second trip to the protocol. If it wasn’t for bad luck, we wouldn’t have no luck at all. 

   

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, Peppers90 NC said:

Not sure why they should receive flack for that. Lack of adjustments sure, but the system just seems like bitching for the joy of bitching.

I watched the entire Joy of Bitching series with George Costanza. Not nearly as relaxing as Bob Ross’s Joy of Painting.