Corona Virus

[KSpan]

28 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

The goalpost moving was directed to the crowd arguing to keep kids home in the fall in the broader context of the COVID-19 dialogue. Notice I didn't say 'you' are moving the goalposts.

However it does seem like you are advocating to keep kids home until (if) a vaccine is developed.  It has been demonstrated grade school kids fall behind in on-line learning.  So by keeping parents home foregoing jobs, or putting them in daycare (how is that more sanitary than school?) in hopes a vaccine is right around the corner seems a bit over the top.   The secondary damage done to the body due to COVID-19 is in the exact same demographic that is the most vulnerable, the elderly.  I have yet to see where kids are showing signs of permanent damage linked to this disease.  Teachers know how to protect themselves, so let's not fain we are protecting teachers here.  Positive COVID-19 kids have to stay home until cleared and the schools can't hold it against their attendance (just like jobs can't hold it against employee attendance).  What's so hard about that?  Kids shed the virus faster than adults, usually 7-10 days.

MMR and polio took forever to develop a vaccine.  Yes, they are available now, but it's not like they were developed in mere months upon research like we are trying to do with this disease.  If we are waiting on a vaccine, the entire 2020-2021 school year (at best) will be lost....on-line, but essentially lost.  

I haven't advocated for anything - that's what you're projecting onto my comments. I am in the same position as millions of other parents, weighing whether we would/should send our kids back or go with home-based and accommodate accordingly. 

Regarding kids and permanent damage, that has been discussed here in the form of MIS-C. It is rare but can cause permanent damage. This is why I asked about acceptable risk level.

Regarding your premise that online falls behind as a general outcome, please cite a source. It's certainly a complicated issue that in my experience with educators (I studied education in college and many in my family are teachers and administrators) they cite pros and cons to both, but also acknowledge that there can be confounding factors such as SES and home situations. That can't be ignored, andother studies have shown that homeschooling is as effective, if not moreso, than public education in many ways while falling short in others. A pretty balanced overview can be seen here: https://home-school.lovetoknow.com/Statistics_on_Public_School_Vs_Homeschooling  

Regarding daycare there is variability in state licensing requirements and how they're run but the groups are typically much smaller and spaces more controlled. I worked at a daycare for several years during college and agreed that it's conceptually the same thing but there's a notable difference between having 10-15 kids to monitor, with more than 1 adult for the younger groups, and class sizes that extend upward of 20 or 25.

Regarding vaccines I'm just saying that those diseases pose a threat of permanent damage and mandatory vaccines have been instituted to mitigate it. I've no idea if a vaccine is around the corner and as someone in the dug development industry I have my concerns about the pace and rigor with which these current IPs are being developed. I'm simply pointing out how other such things have been handled in today's environment.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Does the CDC get the testing data after the WH? Or is it only going to the WH?

WH: It's over guize! We cured!

[stirs]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Constantly evoking whataboutisms and pseudo-science is a far better use of time?

When "science" changes every week or so, then people lose confidence.  Maybe they should call it research at this point.  Shaming people who followed 4 rabbit trails because they are not willing to follow the current trail, gets a bit tiresome, but again, go ahead, there's nothing better to do currently.  Fauci lost a lot of them by saying, meh to masks, then a couple months later admitting that he was basically lying to Americans.  So the trust factor is not going to sit well with most people who have the attention span of a gnat.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

I haven't advocated for anything - that's what you're projecting onto my comments. I am in the same position as millions of other parents, weighing whether we would/should send our kids back or go with home-based and accommodate accordingly. 

Regarding kids and permanent damage, that has been discussed here in the form of MIS-C. It is rare but can cause permanent damage. This is why I asked about acceptable risk level.

Regarding your premise that online falls behind as a general outcome, please cite a source. It's certainly a complicated issue that in my experience with educators (I studied education in college and many in my family are teachers and administrators) they cite pros and cons to both, but also acknowledge that there can be confounding factors such as SES and home situations. That can't be ignored, andother studies have shown that homeschooling is as effective, if not moreso, than public education in many ways while falling short in others. A pretty balanced overview can be seen here: https://home-school.lovetoknow.com/Statistics_on_Public_School_Vs_Homeschooling  

Regarding daycare there is variability in state licensing requirements and how they're run but the groups are typically much smaller and spaces more controlled. I worked at a daycare for several years during college and agreed that it's conceptually the same thing but there's a notable difference between having 10-15 kids to monitor, with more than 1 adult for the younger groups, and class sizes that extend upward of 20 or 25.

Regarding vaccines I'm just saying that those diseases pose a threat of permanent damage and mandatory vaccines have been instituted to mitigate it. I've no idea if a vaccine is around the corner and as someone in the dug development industry I have my concerns about the pace and rigor with which these current IPs are being developed. I'm simply pointing out how other such things have been handled in today's environment.

Who is doing the homeschooling?  One parent would have to stay home.  How about single parent homes, who stays home to do the schooling?  I agree homeschooling is better than public schools in most scenarios, but that should be a decision the family makes outside of a pandemic.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, stirs said:

When "science" changes every week or so, then people lose confidence.  Maybe they should call it research at this point.  Shaming people who followed 4 rabbit trails because they are not willing to follow the current trail, gets a bit tiresome, but again, go ahead, there's nothing better to do currently.  Fauci lost a lot of them by saying, meh to masks, then a couple months later admitting that he was basically lying to Americans.  So the trust factor is not going to sit well with most people who have the attention span of a gnat.

Their trust factor for a certain politician certainly hasn't wavered despite spewing blatant falsehoods at every opportunity. Funny how that works.

[Moo Daeng]

16 minutes ago, Ja Rhule said:

I think the isolation will mentally fug current generation of kids.  Here comes the next wave of republicans.

Kids and parents all over the world adapt and progress. Americans are soft and whine and look of inconvenience to complain about in every little thing.  

[Brooklyn 3.0]

https://youdontneedamask.com/

[Moo Daeng]

The administration and it's enablers have failed at every step along the way. It would be one thing if there was any reason to trust them. It would be comical if it wasn't our country being forced in to a meat grinder for the benefit of nobody but these idiots

Edited July 15, 2020 by Moo Daeng

[kass]

First I wanted to sit out of this one, but maybe it´s more fun if I add some information and then you all can battle it out by yourself.

So Sweden did not close schools like most countries:

• Pre-school, age 1-6. Not mandatory but EVERYONE have their kids in pre-school
• School, start age 6-7. Mandatory 9 years
• Upper secondary school, start age 15-16, goes on for 2-4 years. and almost everyone attend
• University

Pre-school and school was open as normal. Rumor says a third of parents kept their kids home. Upper secondary and University, all classes was held online.

Confirmed Covid-19 cases  (total for sweden 76001)

• 0-9 year: 469
• 10-19 year: 3027

ICU-cases (total 2484)

• 0-9 year old: 7
• 10-19 years: 14

I have no number of "regular" hospitalization.

Deaths (total 5545):

• 0-9: 1*
• 10-19: 0

*Unclear if the young child died because of Covid.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

 

How big is the risk for teachers!?

Study done by Public Health Agency of Sweden (Folkhälsomyndigheten)

Article in Teachers Union Magazine about the study

Quote

- We have looked at all cases so far, and we have quite a few in Sweden, and we have compared with different occupational groups. And we came to the conclusion that a professional group that has very little infection in relation to how large the professional group is, and compared to others who move in society in the same age group, the teachers are a group that gets so sick that they come to health care clearly less than other groups, says Anders Tegnell to Läraren.se

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, kass said:

First I wanted to sit out of this one, but maybe it´s more fun if I add some information and then you all can battle it out by yourself.

So Sweden did not close schools like most countries:

• Pre-school, age 1-6. Not mandatory but EVERYONE have their kids in pre-school
• School, start age 6-7. Mandatory 9 years
• Upper secondary school, start age 15-16, goes on for 2-4 years. and almost everyone attend
• University

Pre-school and school was open as normal. Rumor says a third of parents kept their kids home. Upper secondary and University, all classes was held online.

Confirmed Covid-19 cases  (total for sweden 76001)

• 0-9 year: 469
• 10-19 year: 3027

ICU-cases (total 2484)

• 0-9 year old: 7
• 10-19 years: 14

I have no number of "regular" hospitalization.

Deaths (total 5545):

• 0-9: 1*
• 10-19: 0

*Unclear if the young child died because of Covid.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

 

How big is the risk for teachers!?

Study done by Public Health Agency of Sweden (Folkhälsomyndigheten)

Article in Teachers Union Magazine about the study

 

Maybe I need another cup of coffee or maybe it's a bad translation, but what is that quote supposed to be getting at?

[kass]

2 minutes ago, kass said:

 

Quote:

- We have looked at all cases so far, and we have quite a few in Sweden, and we have compared with different occupational groups. And we came to the conclusion that a professional group that has very little infection in relation to how large the professional group is, and compared to others who move in society in the same age group, the teachers are a group that gets so sick that they come to health care clearly less than other groups, says Anders Tegnell to Läraren.se

 

Thats Google translate... and barely makes sense. :D

Let me make it clear.

Teachers needed far less hospital care than the other job occupations that was included in the study.

[kass]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Maybe I need another cup of coffee or maybe it's a bad translation, but what is that quote supposed to be getting at?

I saw the same thing right after i posted it.. sorry...

[CatTower]

One note of the wearing mask crowd.  It can actually be a detriment if you aren't washing your hands.  This is a respiratory illness, so let's say you get on an elevator or touch your hands on anything that coronavirus could live on.  And, then without washing your hands, you adjust your mask touching your nose and face.  You've just increased your risk of catching the coronavirus by touching your face, thus offsetting what benefit the mask was supposed to do.

 

The key is to:

Wear a mask

&

Don't touch your face, mask without washing your hands

 

How many people will do both things?  Such a small percentage that it's inconsequential.  

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, CatTower said:

One note of the wearing mask crowd.  It can actually be a detriment if you aren't washing your hands.  This is a respiratory illness, so let's say you get on an elevator or touch your hands on anything that coronavirus could live on.  And, then without washing your hands, you adjust your mask touching your nose and face.  You've just increased your risk of catching the coronavirus by touching your face, thus offsetting what benefit the mask was supposed to do.

 

The key is to:

Wear a mask

&

Don't touch your face, mask without washing your hands

 

How many people will do both things?  Such a small percentage that it's inconsequential.  

You realize there is actual data STRONGLY suggesting that mask wearing is effective in real world situations, right? So, what are these mental gymanstics truly about?

Honestly, I realize that I may need to switch tactics here...