Corona Virus

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

You've already said you don't care what the results are.  Weird flex but okay.

You seem to be twisting my words and sentiment. I never said I didn't care how many people die. I said the exact number wouldn't change my opinion that he's acted foolishly and bungled the state's response thus far. I firmly stand by that. Theoretically it could sway just how monumentally terrible his leadership with regards to the virus will turn out to be but either way it's bad.

But as I was saying, even if it turns out to be less bad than the worst projections, I'm not going to say he handled it well. Because that would be dismissing the thousands of people that end up in ICUs and die which could have been avoided if he actually took it seriously.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/07/09/florida-adds-record-high-120-coronavirus-deaths-411-hospitalizations-on-thursday/

The numbers are staggering. Over 400 newly hospitalized in 1 day. That's like transferring half of all of North Carolina's hospitalized COVID patients to Florida's already busy numbers in a single day. A record 120 dead in 1 day; recall that a record number of new hospitalizations today should translate to record deaths in about 4 weeks and realize we're just getting started.

My follow-up point, trying to meet you halfway, was in response to your New York comment. I said I'm willing to concede the possibility it might not get quite to New York's level and said we could revisit that in 2-3 months to throw you a bone. But my point being it shouldn't matter when deciding that de Santis screwed up. 

But why? Other than the fact that it minimizes all the people who will end up in the ICU and/or die. No situation should ever rival New York City. The largest city in the country, one of the most densely populated in the world and a population dependent on crammed public transportation at a time when nobody was appreciating the threat of the virus, wearing masks or social distancing. And we didn't know the best way to treat patients and were doing therapies that we now know are not helpful or possibly even dangerous, without the availability of treatments with some proven benefit like remdesvir. Who could now replicate that scenario? Miami and Tampa are by far the hardest hit in Florida and they combine to make up about 10% of NYC's population. And now we know so much about the virus, how to slow it down and how to monitor and treat it. If your threshold is that it doesn't get as bad as early New York, that's a very sad bar. The fact that we can even entertain the possibility of that debate as it relates to Florida is even sadder.

So yes to my very original point that started this back and forth, if de Santis thought the important message to the media is that they weren't as bad as New York and using that as justification for his handling of the virus, then he's a fool. If Roy Cooper was asked about our hospitalizations, which probably were at worst not much different than Florida's when de Santis gave that soundbite and said "Listen we've been in phase 2 for 7 weeks and we're nowhere close to New York. Get off my ass!" I'd say he was a damn fool too. But instead he's consistently said we need to be careful, wear masks and socially distance so we don't move backward. That's the difference.

[Wes21]

1 minute ago, Peon Awesome said:

I said the exact number wouldn't change my opinion that he's acted foolishly and bungled the state's response thus far. I firmly stand by that.

You are rendering judgement regardless of what the results are...which is what I said.  Again, you could have saved yourself alot of words.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, bull123 said:

every student on scholarship costs tens of thousands....its not free  

In accounting terms? Sure. In real dollars? Nah. 

[Peon Awesome]

1 minute ago, Wes21 said:

You are rendering judgement regardless of what the results are...which is what I said.  Again, you could have saved yourself alot of words.

It's strange that you still don't understand. I am rendering judgement based on the results we already have today. Those numbers already demonstrate failure. They don't have to get any worse for that to be true. Which is the point. Like I said the final results might make him a bigger failure but there's no scenario at this point that would make his handling free of significant criticism. 

Your argument would make sense if I said months ago when De Santis first allowed everything to open up that he failed. That is not where we are. The fact that anyone is going to defend his handling when the state is in disarray confuses me. But you're entitled to your opinion if you think he's handling it well or that there's a scenario where he'll be proven to have made the right decision. We'll just have to disagree which is fine. But let's stop harping on some misguided interpretation of my words.

[LinvilleGorge]

South Carolina is currently holding a huge press conference to announce their new measures to curb the spread of the virus. They're not going to allow sales of alcohol after 11pm. That's the beginning and end of the list.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, bull123 said:

money is real

Accounting is a shell game. In real dollars that scholarship doesn't truly cost them out of pocket much at all. 

[raz]

1 hour ago, Peon Awesome said:

It's strange that you still don't understand. I am rendering judgement based on the results we already have today. Those numbers already demonstrate failure. They don't have to get any worse for that to be true. Which is the point. Like I said the final results might make him a bigger failure but there's no scenario at this point that would make his handling free of significant criticism. 

Your argument would make sense if I said months ago when De Santis first allowed everything to open up that he failed. That is not where we are. The fact that anyone is going to defend his handling when the state is in disarray confuses me. But you're entitled to your opinion if you think he's handling it well or that there's a scenario where he'll be proven to have made the right decision. We'll just have to disagree which is fine. But let's stop harping on some misguided interpretation of my words.

you have the patience of, well, a very patient person.    the contrarian only wants to eat up your time and energy and is not interested in learning anything.  they've shown that all over the boards.   just a heads up.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

South Carolina is currently holding a huge press conference to announce their new measures to curb the spread of the virus. They're not going to allow sales of alcohol after 11pm. That's the beginning and end of the list.

 

Totally pointless.  Governor just knows his state is a mess....so he announces he did “something”.   Which is nothing. 

Everyone that would have been in the bar at 11:30 drinking....will still be in the same bar drinking until 11pm.  

 

[CRA]

Next Gov. McMaster is going to shutdown the beaches from 8pm-6am. 

[Devil Doc]

38 minutes ago, CRA said:

Next Gov. McMaster is going to shutdown the beaches from 8pm-6am. 

I never got this.. Does the Virus spread worse after 8pm? 

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Devil Doc said:

I never got this.. Does the Virus spread worse after 8pm? 

well, the beach thing was a joke.  The bar thing was real.  

I fail to see how it impacts anything.  Everyone is still at the bar drinking.   They just have to leave at 11pm.  Folks that show up fashionably late will just arrive earlier.  

[kass]

16 hours ago, electro's horse said:

you have to understand that the american healthcare system is run like any other business; there's no room to expand, there's no room for excess. excess is something that isn't making you money. it's why you're seeing things like in houston where you're hospitals are expanding into children's hospitals

so don't look at it like "once we reach x% then the poo hits the fan." think of it as "the closer we get to x% the less effective we are at treating it." 

without massive federal intervention (that's not coming) there's only so much upward scaling you can do in such a short amount of time. 

anything can be an icu bed. I can slap a 25 year old heart monitor on a bed in the hall and call it an icu bed. But do I have the staff to man it? Do i have the equipment? can i do everything i need to do if thigns go pear shaped? 

And sweden is an irrelevant comparison. think about how much healthier an average swede is at baseline than an american because they have better healthcare throughout their lives. think about how much better functioning their healthcare system is than the american one. 

if nothing else this should really give far right wingers good reason to reevaluate their views irt healthcare but lmao we know it won't

I assumed private companies, hospitals,  would like to make some money on this pandemic and therefore provide with more ICU if the demand was high. 

But can't argue with your post. Normally I have no faith in the American system to do what's right. So I shouldn't have it this time either. 

We will see if things get better after 2024. 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

16 hours ago, electro's horse said:

"ive spoken to professionals"

like what does he even imagine he's lying about? the professional mask wearing guild?

I've run into that dude in the Tinderbox

He's one of those "Trump is taking down the global pedo cabal" people

[Paa Langfart]

16 hours ago, rippadonn said:

I've talked to numerous professionals about this, ignore me though.

Lol