Marty Hurney: a look back

[electro's horse]

Hurney was just fired, for the second time in half a decade, and this time it's likely for good. Hurney has been making decisions for the Panthers in some form or fashion since the nineties, and even when he was fired he was never really gone. He bonded with the owner in a way that eventually proved unhealthy and counterproductive. He won power a power struggle against John Fox and kinda lost one with Rivera, then kinda won again. He was good enough at office politics that he managed to worm his way back into power long after he should have been fired. He was overly loyal to his own guys, too reliant on his own instincts, and never really got over chasing the high from that 2003 season where he could do no wrong. 

The Good

The players and people that worked for Hurney loved him. He was a good guy in the office, the kind that knew everyone's name. During the 03-12 run there was a feeling that the Panthers were a family more than anything, and being supportive of one another was sometimes more valuable than on field production. He rewarded home grown players that did well, and very rarely let his best guys hit the market. When paired with someone else to control his worst impulses, he was a fantastic evaluator of talent. He wasn't afraid to make moves, sometimes at his detriment, but oftentimes with great success. 

And the guy could spot talent. Hurney drafted 2 for sure Hall of Fame players in Kuechly and Peppers, and maybe a third with Steve Smith. You could always count on his first rounders being studs that could compete right away and at a high level. And I think that's something a lot of us took for granted, especially looking back at the Benjamin and Butler picks. 

And he built championship teams. That 2013-2015 team was largely Hurney players. The 2003 team was all him, going back to the drafting of Mike Rucker. And those early 2000s panthers team were built to win several trips to the postseason if not for bad luck with injuries, specifically 2004. They won the NFC South 3 straight years with Cam when none of the teams in the division were gimmes like the Patriots had for their run in the AFC East. 

The family approach had a lot of pluses to it. Guarantee Steve Smith doesn't have a career with the Panthers if not for it. 

Overall the Panthers' record has been middle of the road, but they've sure done a lot better than some other teams. 

The Bad

Hurney tied himself to an owner who was rapidly deteriorating both physically and mentally. When Hurney did the owners bidding and nuked the team in 2010, everyone else in the league took notice. There's a reason Andrew Luck decided to study architecture for one more year. One of the reasons we gave so much money to middling players like James Anderson after that season was because they had to send a message to the rest of the team that things were back to normal. With Cam, he indulged the worst impulses of Jerry Richardson (and rivera), by abandoning his plan to have a fun, vertical offense in favor of one run by the son of a guy who had success in the 70s.

He bears a ton of the blame for what happened to Cam. A lot of it is Rivera, who just saw Cam as another piece/extension of the running game. A lot of it is Richardson, who never fully embraced Cam as the face of the franchise, and never pushed to protect him. But at the end of the day, Hurney was always willing to let Cam overcome the inadequacies of the defensive line, much in the same way he (and Fox) were willing to let Peppers carry a bunch of scrubs. 

Hurney's drafting was a double edged sword, especially after he forced out Fox and took more direct control. Hurney could spot studs at the top, no lie about it. But anything after the first was a roll of the dice, and more often than he was busting. The Panthers just could not produce any young talent from the draft in the later rounds on a consistent basis in the 2010s, so what you had was a team that was VERY top heavy. Yes, Davis, Cam, Kuechly, Smith, DeAngelo and Stewart, and Olsen (not a draft i know) were great, but god there wasn't anything around them. They were good enough players to keep the team competitive, but not enough to win it all themselves. 

But those players got payed. The Panthers understood who their dudes were and treated them as such. But Hurney's profligacy with the cap, especially with players past their prime, precluded the team from pursuing a lot of free agent upgrades. The Panthers simply couldn't land the caliber of player they needed to patch up the holes on the defensive and offensive lines on a consistent basis. It's no surprise the defense really took off when Gettleman just drafted two young DTs, or that the offense went crazy the one year a good oline just kinda...happened. The Panthers had to count on draft picks to fill the holes, which goes back to the other problem. 

And god did Hurney trust his gut in the draft process. There wasn't a single player Hurney didn't think was ACTUALLY playing the wrong position and could be transitioned to a different one in the pros and ONLY hurney could see that and he was SO SURE OF IT he was actually going to TRADE UP FOR THIS PLAYER because THATS HOW SURE HE WAS ABOUT IT. 

Hurney played politics to get more control of the team. He won the battle with John Fox (and Richardson' own sons, morbidly enough) and pushed him out of town. Rivera was always more worried about his assistants usurping him, and his instincts kinda matched up with the owner's anyway so he and hurney never really butted heads. And this was the problem. Hurney was never as good alone as he was with someone. 

The Panthers best consistent drafting, where they were not just finding great players but rotational guys they could build on, happened from 2002-2007. Hurney and Fox were working together with players, seeing who they liked, who fit what they wanted, and they could coach. Fox was there to say "no marty this D3 defensive back is not actually an all pro defensive tackle in waiting." 

And the contracts, especially since 2010, have hamstrung the team. Hurney simply doesn't understand how to work negotiations or contracts in the modern nfl. It's ruthless, it's speculative, it's not family oriented, and it's the total opposite of his style. he didn't draft KK Short, but that most recent contract was the most obvious example of his approach since the Jake Delhomme extension; create a small amount of short term relief by anchoring yourself disproportionately to a player past their prime. 

Conclusion

The game has passed Hurney by. He can still hit at the top of the draft, but he has over a decade of whiffing everywhere else. He didn't understand the importance of protecting Cam and squandered the team's greatest asset. He stuck around as long as he did by attaching himself to an owner that was driving his team into the ground, then wormed his way back in right before a sex scandal took him out. He doesn't understand how to work the salary cap in the modern NFL. Whatever luck he had trusting his instincts early in his GM career has run dry. I'm surprised they outright fired him instead of just promoting him to like Executive Director of the Panthers Cruise, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tepper didn't think he could stop Hurney from meddling. He gave this team some of its best memories, but moving forward you don't want him near the team. 

Bye Marty. 

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Hurney was just fired, for the second time in half a decade, and this time it's likely for good. Hurney has been making decisions for the Panthers in some form or fashion since the nineties, and even when he was fired he was never really gone. He bonded with the owner in a way that eventually proved unhealthy and counterproductive. He won power a power struggle against John Fox and kinda lost one with Rivera, then kinda won again. He was good enough at office politics that he managed to worm his way back into power long after he should have been fired. He was overly loyal to his own guys, too reliant on his own instincts, and never really got over chasing the high from that 2003 season where he could do no wrong. 

The Good

The players and people that worked for Hurney loved him. He was a good guy in the office, the kind that knew everyone's name. During the 03-12 run there was a feeling that the Panthers were a family more than anything, and being supportive of one another was sometimes more valuable than on field production. He rewarded home grown players that did well, and very rarely let his best guys hit the market. When paired with someone else to control his worst impulses, he was a fantastic evaluator of talent. He wasn't afraid to make moves, sometimes at his detriment, but oftentimes with great success. 

And the guy could spot talent. Hurney drafted 2 for sure Hall of Fame players in Kuechly and Peppers, and maybe a third with Steve Smith. You could always count on his first rounders being studs that could compete right away and at a high level. And I think that's something a lot of us took for granted, especially looking back at the Benjamin and Butler picks. 

And he built championship teams. That 2013-2015 team was largely Hurney players. The 2003 team was all him, going back to the drafting of Mike Rucker. And those early 2000s panthers team were built to win several trips to the postseason if not for bad luck with injuries, specifically 2004. They won the NFC South 3 straight years with Cam when none of the teams in the division were gimmes like the Patriots had for their run in the AFC East. 

The family approach had a lot of pluses to it. Guarantee Steve Smith doesn't have a career with the Panthers if not for it. 

Overall the Panthers' record has been middle of the road, but they've sure done a lot better than some other teams. 

The Bad

Hurney tied himself to an owner who was rapidly deteriorating both physically and mentally. When Hurney did the owners bidding and nuked the team in 2010, everyone else in the league took notice. There's a reason Andrew Luck decided to study architecture for one more year. One of the reasons we gave so much money to middling players like James Anderson after that season was because they had to send a message to the rest of the team that things were back to normal. With Cam, he indulged the worst impulses of Jerry Richardson (and rivera), by abandoning his plan to have a fun, vertical offense in favor of one run by the son of a guy who had success in the 70s.

He bears a ton of the blame for what happened to Cam. A lot of it is Rivera, who just saw Cam as another piece/extension of the running game. A lot of it is Richardson, who never fully embraced Cam as the face of the franchise, and never pushed to protect him. But at the end of the day, Hurney was always willing to let Cam overcome the inadequacies of the defensive line, much in the same way he (and Fox) were willing to let Peppers carry a bunch of scrubs. 

Hurney's drafting was a double edged sword, especially after he forced out Fox and took more direct control. Hurney could spot studs at the top, no lie about it. But anything after the first was a roll of the dice, and more often than he was busting. The Panthers just could not produce any young talent from the draft in the later rounds on a consistent basis in the 2010s, so what you had was a team that was VERY top heavy. Yes, Davis, Cam, Kuechly, Smith, DeAngelo and Stewart, and Olsen (not a draft i know) were great, but god there wasn't anything around them. They were good enough players to keep the team competitive, but not enough to win it all themselves. 

But those players got payed. The Panthers understood who their dudes were and treated them as such. But Hurney's profligacy with the cap, especially with players past their prime, precluded the team from pursuing a lot of free agent upgrades. The Panthers simply couldn't land the caliber of player they needed to patch up the holes on the defensive and offensive lines on a consistent basis. It's no surprise the defense really took off when Gettleman just drafted two young DTs, or that the offense went crazy the one year a good oline just kinda...happened. The Panthers had to count on draft picks to fill the holes, which goes back to the other problem. 

And god did Hurney trust his gut in the draft process. There wasn't a single player Hurney didn't think was ACTUALLY playing the wrong position and could be transitioned to a different one in the pros and ONLY hurney could see that and he was SO SURE OF IT he was actually going to TRADE UP FOR THIS PLAYER because THATS HOW SURE HE WAS ABOUT IT. 

Hurney played politics to get more control of the team. He won the battle with John Fox (and Richardson' own sons, morbidly enough) and pushed him out of town. Rivera was always more worried about his assistants usurping him, and his instincts kinda matched up with the owner's anyway so he and hurney never really butted heads. And this was the problem. Hurney was never as good alone as he was with someone. 

The Panthers best consistent drafting, where they were not just finding great players but rotational guys they could build on, happened from 2002-2007. Hurney and Fox were working together with players, seeing who they liked, who fit what they wanted, and they could coach. Fox was there to say "no marty this D3 defensive back is not actually an all pro defensive tackle in waiting." 

And the contracts, especially since 2010, have hamstrung the team. Hurney simply doesn't understand how to work negotiations or contracts in the modern nfl. It's ruthless, it's speculative, it's not family oriented, and it's the total opposite of his style. he didn't draft KK Short, but that most recent contract was the most obvious example of his approach since the Jake Delhomme extension; create a small amount of short term relief by anchoring yourself disproportionately to a player past their prime. 

Conclusion

The game has passed Hurney by. He can still hit at the top of the draft, but he has over a decade of whiffing everywhere else. He didn't understand the importance of protecting Cam and squandered the team's greatest asset. He stuck around as long as he did by attaching himself to an owner that was driving his team into the ground, then wormed his way back in right before a sex scandal took him out. He doesn't understand how to work the salary cap in the modern NFL. Whatever luck he had trusting his instincts early in his GM career has run dry. I'm surprised they outright fired him instead of just promoting him to like Executive Director of the Panthers Cruise, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tepper didn't think he could stop Hurney from meddling. He gave this team some of its best memories, but moving forward you don't want him near the team. 

Bye Marty. 

Excellent post

[LinvilleGorge]

The good: most 1st round picks

The bad: most everything else

[Diehardpanther02]

I think what ultimately lead to Hurney being axed, from David tepper himself was that Hurney was a solo artist when it came to drafting and contracts. The few years that went well is when he welcomed alternative opinions and that was few and far between. Tepper consistently comments about make this one system bringing each aspect together and putting all the minds together to meet at an agreement that fits for everyone. No one person should have that much pull on an organization, I honestly admire the way tepper does things. We have a bright future with this train of thought.

 

It's not bye hurney. It's good riddance for me. That era of outdated football in what should be a new age team with the idea of evolution, Will be huge for this franchise going forward.

[Panther'sBigD]

5 minutes ago, bull123 said:

The JR angle you speak of is minimal at best

and it’s not Marty’s fault that cam only had a single good yr

LOL. Hurney is a creep, similar enough to Richardson that he was fine enabling him for all of those years. Remember he stalked his ex-wife like a crazy person. 

And of course it was his fault that Cam didn't have a better career here. Cam never had a decent line or enough weapons after his rookie season thanks to Hurney and his horrible drafts and signings, including elevating Shula rather than finding an actual 21st century offensive mind. 

[OneBadCat]

11 minutes ago, bull123 said:

The JR angle you speak of is minimal at best

and it’s not Marty’s fault that cam only had a single good yr

When are you going to start charging Cam for living in your head rent free all this time?

[kungfoodude]

I looked back and saw.....

[Diehardpanther02]

15 minutes ago, bull123 said:

The JR angle you speak of is minimal at best

and it’s not Marty’s fault that cam only had a single good yr

This is dumb.

For one Cam had more than just one good year. He just only had one year where the pieces actually meshed.

That is on Richardson, Marty, and the way tepper keeps talking about marty it's even Less Everyday with Ron. Marty just has some sort of spell on those guys. It's weird. And definitely creepy.

Ron still sucked at Clock Management, and adjustments at HT. That matters too.

[Car123]

17 minutes ago, bull123 said:

The JR angle you speak of is minimal at best

and it’s not Marty’s fault that cam only had a single good yr

Did Cam bang your mother and sister?

[BPF]

The good summed up in 2 sentences, First round picks, very minimum output later or in free agency.

The bad is almost an entire novel turned into a series to rival the Game of Thrones series. 

Conclusion today is the best day in a long, long time as a Panthers fan. 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

my peas get steamed whenever i look back in the 2010s in panthers football. if marty hurney knew what the word "depth" meant we would have a lombardi in charlotte. i dont know if he's the biggest reason why we went ringless in those years, but hes undoubtedly top 3.

[Panther'sBigD]

19 minutes ago, bull123 said:

Shula was awful

the rest is crap

I get why you'd defend Marty and Richardson, creeps of a feather and all. 

[MHS831]

22 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I looked back and saw.....

I see the same thing--except in my vision, there is a thick blanket of scorpion fog making it hard to see.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

my peas get steamed whenever i look back in the 2010s in panthers football. if marty hurney knew what the word "depth" meant we would have a lombardi in charlotte. i dont know if he's the biggest reason why we went ringless in those years, but hes undoubtedly top 3.

It started (for me) in 2008, when he traded up for Otah.  Then the next year, traded away our first rounder for Brown.  Then he tried to trade up for Clausen.  The he TRADED up (#33 overall) for Armanti....

But the contracts he gave Stewart and Williams (at the time for RBs when the position was devalued) was ridiculous.  He had just given Delhomme a big extension AFTER Tommy John surgery and 5 picks in the Cardinal NFC Title game.  He gave Charles Johnson a huge deal when Atlanta was the only other team in the running and they were cap strapped.  He even wanted to give Clausen another year to develop in 2011 by taking Marcel Dareus at #1 overall (the pick he tried to trade away to move up the #33 with the Rams to draft Clausen the year before).  Rivera forced the Cam move.  That was our GM folks.  The biggest laughing stock in the NFL--after Jerry Jones.