Panthers will try to Trevor. Big time.

[Basbear]

 

That can not happen, 4 firsts couple 2s and a few more mid-rounders......when you alreay have either the 3-6 overall. No rookie is worth that, I dont even think Patty Malhomes is worth that. 

 

If that was the plan, why on earth do you try to win any games??? Plus this puts another huge mental block for the "must win all games crowd"

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Do you want to be the one to tell these folks that it could be a 9-15 year wait if we trade the farm to draft Lawrence, and it may not happen at all?  They have themselves convinced it will be next year, two years tops.  Many are spitting on themselves now because a team expected to maybe win 2-4 game has posted 4 wins.

The turnaround is rarely instantaneous, and when it is relatively short (Kansas City with Mahomes), the team around the new QB was pretty solid to start with and just needed someone to push them over the top.  The problem is with the lead time of some of the examples, the team had to completely turn over at least once, and maybe two or three times before it hit critical mass.  That may have been the fourth different version of the Broncos that Elway saw.

Mahomes was set up for success, given the reins of an otherwise pretty solid team in almost every respect.  Most QBs do not inherit that.  As has been pointed out (maybe another thread), the reason so many highly drafted QBs "flunk out" is they were set up for failure from the outset.  They wind up either getting murdered physically back there or they develop bad habits from it that they never shake.  I really don't want to see us get in that cycle.

There is a plan in place, and I trust whatever Rhule and company do.  I know they have shied away from saying it, but it is a complete rebuild and we are early in the process.  But, as you pointed out and others seem to miss, parting with the price it would take to make this trade will make it very likely we are still dry in three years.  In essence, we could be recreating the Cam situation except due to lack of options rather than utter incompetence.  Success would likely have to come in "round two" if at all.

I'd rather take the KC approach and build a solid team first, then do what we need to do to get the guy to take the snaps.

KC approach? It still took them finding the right QB, right? Let’s not act like if you “build the team first” it’s some sort of guarantee and then we just need one more piece and we’ll just grab our Mahomes. It sure would be nice to build a team and then find us the best QB in the NFL. How many teams have been able to do this versus finding their QB in the draft?

This is all hypothetical but trading for Trevor doesn’t mean it’s a 9 to 15 year process. That was just the time it took to actually win a SB. Eli won in 4 and the Giants traded up essentially. Same with Denver for Elway. Rams traded up for Goff and almost won a SB in a few years. Eagles traded up and while Wentz sucks now, he was an the MVP candidate for 13 games their SB winning year and was very responsible for getting the 1 seed.

Predicting the SB wasn’t the point. If we don’t turn the ball over, Cotchery just catches the ball instead of letting a Denver fan do the replay and Shula/Rivera game-plan and give Remmers help, we might have won a SB by drafting a QB #1 and we could have traded away out the entire rest of the 2011 draft and not had any impact. Heck we could have traded away our entire 2010, 2011 and 2012 draft picks outside of Cam, Luke and Norman and our 2015 team is exactly the same. So no, I’m not saying that trading for Lawrence would cripple us and mean that we couldn’t win earlier. I was just trying to set expectations that sometimes even with some of the best QBs, it’s not always a right away SB win. It is usually a very quick turn around to playoff contention and if you get lucky an early SB berth and even luckier a SB win.

[Rocky Davis]

Lawrence can call his shot.....it may well be the only way we can get him without mortgaging our future.

[TheProcess]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Davis said:

Lawrence can call his shot.....it may well be the only way we can get him without mortgaging our future.

Yes!  Him being eligible to return to Clemson puts the cards in his hands. Trade him to Carolina for a few picks, or lose out on him and the extra picks. 

[stbugs]

27 minutes ago, Basbear said:

 

That can not happen, 4 firsts couple 2s and a few more mid-rounders......when you alreay have either the 3-6 overall. No rookie is worth that, I dont even think Patty Malhomes is worth that. 

 

If that was the plan, why on earth do you try to win any games??? Plus this puts another huge mental block for the "must win all games crowd"

What the heck are you talking about? 4 firsts and 2 seconds? I don’t think there’s ever been a trade with 4 firsts in NFL history. The Rams traded two firsts and two seconds (and some later) but they moved up from 15 to 1. The Eagles sent 2 firsts, a third and a second (2 years later) to move up from 8 to 2. Elway was 1 first and a few players. Manning was 2 firsts and a third.

The only trade that comes close was the RG3 trade which is one of the worsts in history and that was 3 firsts and 1 second. 4 firsts and 2 seconds is obscene for moving from 3 or 4 to 1.

This is all hypothetical anyway as I don’t see Jax trading out if Lawrence doesn’t force their hand. 

[Basbear]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

What the heck are you talking about? 4 firsts and 2 seconds? I don’t think there’s ever been a trade with 4 firsts in NFL history. The Rams traded two firsts and two seconds (and some later) but they moved up from 15 to 1. The Eagles sent 2 firsts, a third and a second (2 years later) to move up from 8 to 2. Elway was 1 first and a few players. Manning was 2 firsts and a third.

The only trade that comes close was the RG3 trade which is one of the worsts in history and that was 3 firsts and 1 second. 4 firsts and 2 seconds is obscene for moving from 3 or 4 to 1.

This is all hypothetical anyway as I don’t see Jax trading out if Lawrence doesn’t force their hand. 

Im just spit-balling what it would take to move up, with knowing the team that has the 1st, doesnt want to trade it. I want to keep the picks at all cost too, I do not understand why people are willing. If the panthers had injuries in record numbers to talented players, maybe or they already had a a few extra 1s, 2s etc...maybe again. This team needs around 25 players, Lawrence can not cover 20+ holes. 

[stbugs]

3 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Im just spit-balling what it would take to move up, with knowing the team that has the 1st, doesnt want to trade it. I want to keep the picks at all cost too, I do not understand why people are willing. If the panthers had injuries in record numbers to talented players, maybe or they already had a a few extra 1s, 2s etc...maybe again. This team needs around 25 players, Lawrence can not cover 20+ holes. 

If we could get him for 2 firsts and 2 2nds, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I wasn’t the GM or we’d be sitting pretty with 3 or 4 comp picks and $90M more in cap space so that come 2022/2023 we could make some big splashes where we still had weaknesses and still have enough draft picks to have taken 6 or 7 OL over two drafts to have a good shot at Moton having a good OL next to him. We’d also have enough money that he’d have Moore, CMC, Anderson and maybe Samuel for years. With Grier starting we’d probably have the top pick too. Marty was the GM so we aren’t in a great spot.

It would really suck to know we actually were interested in going for Lawrence because it would confirm how stupid we were this off-season. Rhule still could have gotten the team in fighting shape but we just would have been worse enough to be right there with Jax and NYJ and have an easier SOS to boot.

[Wanderlai]

How does that even work if he says he will not play for whoever has the #1 pick??? Can’t they just pick him anyways and wait him out??? I know he could return to school for his senior season but that’s way to risky financially.

[Proudiddy]

2 hours ago, SCO96 said:

This is the type of mindset that baffless me. You're implying that if we don't get Trevor Lawrence this year then all hope is lost for the future. Last I checked he hasn't played a down in the NFL. He's proven nothing. There is no guarantee he will be successful. He has all of the tools, but no player is a sure thing. Over the course of his career I'm certain he won't be the only QB to win a championship.

I posted earlier about the 3 can't miss prospects of my lifetime : Elway, Manning, and Luck. All 3 were great. But, each one competed against players in their era who were drafted after them or were not as highly touted coming out of college that were just as good , if not better, than they were. Neither of the above dominated their era in terms of SB wins. I think it's very possible a guy in this class drafted after Trevor  could end up having a better career, especially if the team is wise enough to build a solid team around him. Something we would  probably not be able to do if we give away several year's worth of #1 ands #2 draft choices.

 

No, I'm not implying all hope would be lost.  I'm saying we're not likely to find another sure-fire guy from an on-field and off-field/marketing potential aspect.  I know he's not played a down of NFL football, but he's about as sure of a prospect as there has been in years, and that's not factoring in the marketability of a regional kid with local college ties either.  So, all of that combined makes it worth it versus hoping we can find and hit on the right guy in the middle to late rounds in the next 2 or 3 years.

[Sgt Schultz]

9 minutes ago, Wanderlai said:

How does that even work if he says he will not play for whoever has the #1 pick??? Can’t they just pick him anyways and wait him out??? I know he could return to school for his senior season but that’s way to risky financially.

If Jacksonville (or the Jets) pick him, they own his rights for a year.  I have no idea what the NCAA rules are for a player returning after he has been drafted.  Obviously, no money has changed hands at that point, but he may not be eligible to play college ball, either.  It used to be a no-no, but I don't keep track of the shifting sands of NCAA rules.

[The Huddler]

13 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

Give them this year’s 1st

This years 2nd 

Next years 1st

and CMC 

yup i sign off on this

 

hell, give them burns if CMC doesn't cut it. great young DE are extremely valuable, but a once in a generation QB even more so. 

[The Huddler]

13 hours ago, electro's horse said:

why do they want CMC? that doesn't help them at all.

the jets are only going to want picks. or, you know, jeremy chinn

send them chinn then

[Rags]

ah yes

 

the annual igo pot stirring 

[Mr. Scot]

I don't really think we can Trevor.

But I'll be fine if we Wilson.