Richard Sherman thinks Mac Jones criticized unfairly

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, countryboi said:

mobility QB can over come the huge learning curve of learning QB in the NFL with their legs, I have no interest in a statue unless he is generationally talented. Mac Jones is neither, he seems criticized about right. 

Here, I want to dissect the common perceptions about Jones and this post sets me up nicely--not attacking you, countryboi, just using the post to make some counter points.  You may be right, but I would like to know the facts/stats that told you this---what was it you saw or read that drew you to this conclusion?

Would you have called Tom Brady "generationally talented" as a Senior at Michigan? 

Jones broke the NCAA passing completion percentage record by completing 77.4% of his passes.

In the Championship game, Jones completed 36 of 45 passes for 464 yards and five touchdowns during Alabama’s 52-24 victory over Ohio State in Monday’s  In doing so, he set national championship game records in passing yards and competitions.

Tom Brady's senior year at Michigan (with Jones' comparisons in parentheses):  16 TDs (42), 6 Interceptions (4), completion percentage 61.0% (77.4), and 2217 total yards (4500) with 7.5 yards per attempt (11.2). 

So if you call Brady a "generational talent", then you would not have done so when he was in college, based on the comparisons to Jones above.  If he was not one in college but became one, then you would have to admit that Jones was about twice as effective in college as a player you describe to be a generational talent in the NFL, and you should be able to provide us with the reasons Jones as a college senior was more productive than the GOAT was in college, yet Jones is not a generational talent and the underachieving Brady is.

Are you basing your opinion about Jones solely on the fact that he lacks mobility?  Rhule said that Jones is very smart and most scouts drool over his ability to effectively and quickly go through progressions.  Is running more important than his intelligence and accuracy?

Just curious how one might defend the supposition that Jones is not going to be a generational talent when the GOAT was not a generational talent in college by comparison, and he just won a ring a few weeks ago--his seventh. 

Not trying to be a tool, but I am really interested in knowing what it is you all see that I cannot.

Edited March 8, 2021 by MHS831

[TheRumGone]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

I can see Sherman wanting to stick up for a guy with percieved physical limitations, like what caused Sherman to slip.

This is exactly what this is all about.

[Moo Daeng]

 

 

20 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

And that's the thing...  even Sherman is saying guys like Brees and Brady as best-possible outcomes...  problem is, those guys are outliers, and I don't mean just in terms of their ability to excel as less than superior athletes.  I'm saying they are guys, who regardless of style of play, are among the best to EVER play, and not only overcame odds to make it to the NFL, but then overcame even more odds by defying their shortcomings to not just survive, but thrive.  So, are you willing to take a risk on a Mac Jones and hope he overcomes his lack of athleticism and arm strength to become Brees or Brady (but if he doesn't, then he quickly becomes useless because he has nothing to fall back on)?  Or would you rather pick a guy who has the athleticism and big arm, thus improving their odds of succeeding by default because they already possess an advantage over guys like Jones?  

Sure, Jones could become Brees or Brady, but odds are much higher he becomes a Bridgewater or Chase Daniels.

The odds are against any of the QBs being great.

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, Mage said:

Brees can’t scramble but I don’t think I would call him immobile. His pocket movement has always been incredible.

Yes--instinctive and subtle---it is the secret to his success, imo.

[mav1234]

I don't understand why people try to compare Brady in college to any modern prospect.  There's no point.  Part of Brady's story, as we all know, is the pact he made with the devil after the NFL draft to go from a seemingly mediocre college QB to a God among NFL players.

But seriously. Jones is as likely to be Brady as Kyle Allen was.

[Moo Daeng]

He seems more like Warner to me.

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't understand why people try to compare Brady in college to any modern prospect.  There's no point.  Part of Brady's story, as we all know, is the pact he made with the devil after the NFL draft to go from a seemingly mediocre college QB to a God among NFL players.

But seriously. Jones is as likely to be Brady as Kyle Allen was.

 The objective here is not to compare Jones to Brady--it is to demonstrate how off many people are about QBs--the system, coaching, and skill sets matter.  So if someone wants to say, "Waah.  I do not want Jones and I am going to hold my breath if we draft him,"  Then the person makes a pointless statement.  We should be examining his skill set and his college accomplishments and drawing intelligent, articulated conclusions.  So if the only reason for a post is to tell us that the poster does not want a player but that poster provides no intelligent reasons, then it is a garbage, meaningless post.  Its OK not to want Jones, but have some intelligent reasons to share (which was my point) because a player in college is not aligned to the player in the pros--as Brady demonstrates.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

He seems more like Warner to me.

I see that. 

[mav1234]

Just now, MHS831 said:

 The objective here is not to compare Jones to Brady--it is to demonstrate how off many people are about QBs--the system, coaching, and skill sets matter.  So if someone wants to say, "Waah.  I do not want Jones and I am going to hold my breath if we draft him,"  Then the person makes a pointless statement.  We should be examining his skill set and his college accomplishments and drawing intelligent, articulated conclusions.  So if the only reason for a post is to tell us that the poster does not want a player but that poster provides no intelligent reasons, then it is a garbage, meaningless post.  Its OK not to want Jones, but have some intelligent reasons to share (which was my point) because a player in college is not aligned to the player in the pros--as Brady demonstrates.

There are far more examples of players in the pros being the worst versions of their college selves than in being Brady, though.  It's why there is so much emphasis put on physical gifts because the important intangibles are incredibly hard to judge and they often play a big role, but some of them can be covered up with great physical gifts temporarily while a player adjusts to the NFL game 

[Davidson Deac II]

24 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

However, the opponents of quality they played were the best the season had to offer. 

I wasn't referring to just this season.  Alabama usually has more talent than any team they face, regardless of the season. Its always more difficult to assess their ability to play in the NFL.  Of course, because they get so much talent, they get more players in the NFL.  Which is why I would never want to be an NFL scout.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by Davidson Deac II

[Proudiddy]

11 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

 

 

The odds are against any of the QBs being great.

Yeah, but that's my point...  and they're even higher odds for a guy with limited athleticism and questionable arm strength coming from a system where he was surrounded by the absolute best athletes and players in the country that could mask his deficiencies.

[mav1234]

10 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

He seems more like Warner to me.

... Kurt Warner?  The guy with great arm strength?

[Catsfan69]

9 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

... Kurt Warner?  The guy with great arm strength?

This Kurt had a cannon. 

Seriously Mac Jones has no arm.

[davos]

6 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

There are far more examples of players in the pros being the worst versions of their college selves than in being Brady, though.  It's why there is so much emphasis put on physical gifts because the important intangibles are incredibly hard to judge and they often play a big role, but some of them can be covered up with great physical gifts temporarily while a player adjusts to the NFL game 

Exactly.  If they don't have the modern traits, you're taking the risk they have the intangibles and things you can't really project from a college career.

From what I've read, Jones did seem to process the playbook super quickly per Steve Sark so they were able to design a lot of pro level plays for that offense and expand the playbook.

So overall, he has good traits as a passer (accuracy, quick with reads, decision making) & is a QB room guy.  I think it will come down to if a team feels they have an offense that doesn't really require a mobile QB.  Mac definitely likes to push it downfield which is nice.

https://247sports.com/Article/NFL-Draft-2021-Mac-Jones-Alabama-Crimson-Tide-football-quarterback-stock-Senior-Bowl-Jim-Nagy-161998304/

I can see him doing well but it's really hard to see how he would do if the game is on his back and he needs to take a team downfield when needed.  Bama had so many blowouts you don't get a sense of his clutch gene.