Ron "learning from his mistakes" in Carolina

[NanuqoftheNorth]

If I had to choose between Fox and Rivera, I'd pick Fox.

Comparing their Super Bowl performances is night and day.

Fox's Panthers were considered overwhelming underdogs.  Ultimately, the game turned out to be one of the most competitive/exciting games ever played, right down to the last few minutes.  There was no shame in losing that day.  Every player gave it their all.

Rivera's Panthers were 15-1, were favored by 5.5 and had the league's MVP at QB.  Broncos defense intimidated the Panthers offense from the outset and for 60 minutes Rivera had no answer.  Can't even bear to re-watch that game.  Horrendous. 

[rayzor]

Just now, NanuqoftheNorth said:

If I had to choose between Fox and Rivera, I'd pick Fox.

Comparing their Super Bowl performances is night and day.

Fox's Panthers were considered overwhelming underdogs.  Ultimately, the game turned out to be one of the most competitive/exciting games ever played, right down to the last few minutes.  There was no shame in losing that day.  Every player gave it their all.

Rivera's Panthers were 15-1, were favored by 5.5 and had the league's MVP at QB.  Broncos defense intimidated the Panthers offense from the outset and for 60 minutes Rivera had no answer.  Can't even bear to re-watch that game.  Horrendous. 

Both peaked in the superbowl. Fox's team did make a game of it and dealt well with adversity.

Rivera's team wasn't ready to handle it and couldn't adjust when they needed to. Rivera let the team get overwhelmed.

Both coaches took a downward turn after the superbowl though.

Fox let it go to his head and got stagnant real quick, seeing no need to improve.

Rivera was in over his head from the beginning and were it not for Cam and Luke, would have never made it as far as he did.

[KillerKat]

The biggest thing I like about the current coaching staff is they are doing things the coaches for this team wouldn't do in over 2 decades and that's actually making changes to weak areas and making adjustments. At least trying to improve and get better instead of staying stagnate because their egos are so inflated and they think they have some secret key to success despite evidence to the contrary. 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by KillerKat

[KillerKat]

I've never seen such headstrong, ego inflated Super Bowl losing coaches as I have with Fox and Rivera.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

So Ron says he's learning from his past mistakes and that holding on to older players was one of them.

I suspect that Rhule and Fitterer might not make the same mistake.  If true, some fans will need to get used to veteran Panthers with some gas still left in the tank getting traded or released for younger/cheaper replacements.  We all know how that can bring out the hate in some posters.

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

If I had to choose between Fox and Rivera, I'd pick Fox.

Comparing their Super Bowl performances is night and day.

Fox's Panthers were considered overwhelming underdogs.  Ultimately, the game turned out to be one of the most competitive/exciting games ever played, right down to the last few minutes.  There was no shame in losing that day.  Every player gave it their all.

Rivera's Panthers were 15-1, were favored by 5.5 and had the league's MVP at QB.  Broncos defense intimidated the Panthers offense from the outset and for 60 minutes Rivera had no answer.  Can't even bear to re-watch that game.  Horrendous. 

I do think the Super Bowl comparison highlights one of Rivera's biggest weaknesses.

We all know he was not a great judge of player talent, but I think his inability to judge coaching talent was an equal and arguably even greater issue.

Mike Shula is obviously Exhibit A for that argument. Richard Rodgers is probably Exhibit B.

[Mr. Scot]

5 hours ago, Panthers Rhule said:

I just love how the same people will say how great we were looking before Cam got hurt and give Cam a pass but they won't give Ron the same pass. I like Ron the person, he's a great guy. I think he's a good but not great coach. He can win, as he has demonstrated, if he has the right situation. I don't believe he ever had that in Carolina. I don't feel he ever got to do it "his" way. Most everyone here will say how bad Hurney was, well Ron had Hurney here for most of his time here. The other part was with Gman and we all can see how that's working out at NYG. He said our team got old fast and that's true but how bad were our drafts? During most of his tenure our drafts were bad. Yes, he had Cam. But let's be honest. Outside of Carolina Cam isn't considered and has not been considered a very good QB for most of his career. You can match his good seasons to Ron's. When Cam was bad, Ron didn't win. When Cam was good, Ron won. If Cam had been good every season would Ron have won every season? It's possible. Ron won the lowly NFC East with a great defense and a horrible offense last season and went to the playoffs. It appears he has more say at WFT than he did at Carolina. Before we completely judge Ron Rivera the coach, let's see how the WFT thing plays out. We shouldn't judge him 100% based solely on his time at Carolina because honestly, there were many problems around here during his time here. I'm not certain he was the biggest of those problems but only time will tell. 

Don't think I agree here.

Ron pretty much got the players he wanted with Marty as his GM. The big problem was that neither of them was a very good judge of player talent.

Rivera and Gettleman were known to have argued a lot because, for whatever else you think of him, Gettleman was willing to tell Rivera when he was full of sh-t. And I see that as a big reason why Rivera's record with Gettleman as GM was head and shoulders above his record with Marty.

[SizzleBuzz]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

3 hours ago, NAS said:

That’s the exception, not the rule

It was more the rule than you realize.

Fox was notorious for not exploiting other teams weaknesses, but the worst was his complete inability or unwillingness to adapt the gameplan when things went south.

He was not a good game manager at all...but it could be argued he was better than Rivera.

Amazing he made it to 2 Super Bowl games...

[LegioX]

Just can’t get the clueless face look Ron always had whole team was getting destroyed in games. No emotions. Just....eh....

[Khyber53]

13 hours ago, Snake said:

He made it with a losing record and with players not drafted by him.

Yeah, I know, we all know. But there he was, in the playoffs while we were sitting at home. 

[Khyber53]

11 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Wait, remind me again, who won when the Panthers played the WFT last year?

Yep, very true. And we won four other games, too. Woop woop woop.

Look, I agree it was time for Ron to go from here, it had run its course and the team had run down. He went to a team that had been equally run down, maybe even worse and pushed them forward into the playoffs for their first time in quite a while, all while cycling through QBs and battling cancer, while basically taking his old coaching staff from here to assist him. Got to give the man some props for the accomplishment.

Here, well, we're doing a total rebuild and it's something that needed to be done. We aren't the team we were in January 2015 and holding onto that idea had pretty much worn out the franchise. Rhule is building something here, it's just taking some time. In the end, it will hopefully be worth it.

But I had warned back when we were all clamoring for Ron to be fired, that it was very, very likely he'd return to prominence and competitiveness before we did. And he did. The guy gets a lot of hatred on this board as ex-coaches do for about every team's fanbase, but these hot takes that he's a trash coach just don't hold water after even the quickest of inspections.

 

[panthers55]

Although it was 9 years long, this was his first job as coach. And I doubt he was given free rein here like in Washington. Outside of Carolina Rivera is seen as a good coach and when you see the distractions he managed to end up in the playoffs (in arguably the worse division in football) most everyone would consider him a real success so far in Washington. Just like he is learning to move on and adjust the Panthers have done the same. Rivera was good for a number of things and bad for just as many. Rhule and Fitterer have both put their stamp on the team and we are looking like we are really improving. No need complaining about the past  when we have the present and exciting future. I made it a practice to let folks go when they are no longer a Panther. Sure I will follow their progress but they lose the ability to really impact my emotions and particularly make me mad. It does help.especially in these continued difficult times.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Although it was 9 years long, this was his first job as coach. And I doubt he was given free rein here like in Washington. Outside of Carolina Rivera is seen as a good coach and when you see the distractions he managed to end up in the playoffs (in arguably the worse division in football) most everyone would consider him a real success so far in Washington. Just like he is learning to move on and adjust the Panthers have done the same. Rivera was good for a number of things and bad for just as many. Rhule and Fitterer have both put their stamp on the team and we are looking like we are really improving. No need complaining about the past  when we have the present and exciting future. I made it a practice to let folks go when they are no longer a Panther. Sure I will follow their progress but they lose the ability to really impact my emotions and particularly make me mad. It does help.especially in these continued difficult times.

Ron IMO is the best coach we have had to date.   Everyone has their own warts and shortcomings.  Rhule will have his once we get to know him better too. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Calling 3 of 9 Ron our "best coach ever" says more about the failure of the Panthers as an organization than is does Rivera.