Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

A critique of Darnold through 4 games

LinvilleGorge

By LinvilleGorge,
in Carolina Panthers

 Share

Recommended Posts

frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

It's not the only way to determine franchise qb status but winning games late when you are down is a huge part of becoming that. The clutch gene. The last Carolina Panthers franchise quarterback had to check that box too. Both were top 3 draft picks. It comes with the territory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

Realistically speaking there's a lot of ways he can show the clutch I'm looking for. Tbh, he has shown an ability to stem bleeding and secure wins, and also lead consecutive scoring drives while we were down, both things that are very promising.  So, it's more about building on that, having that consistency. 

If he was never put in a position the rest of the season to lead game winning drives or something but continues at his current clip of production, Id probably still be sold. Personally, I'd just like to see him lead the team to wins when given that opportunity to really secure his place here.  On the other hand, if he does that but then sucks in other ways...

It's all about overall production and opportunity. I'm not looking for single stats or things in isolation. And of course I don't make the decisions anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, frankw said:

It's not the only way to determine franchise qb status but winning games late when you are down is a huge part of becoming that. The clutch gene. The last Carolina Panthers franchise quarterback had to check that box too. Both were top 3 draft picks. It comes with the territory.

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

Edited by Jon Snow
  • Pie 1
  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

I don't personally care about rates etc. Im just looking for Darnold to take the opportunities presented to him. If he never gets thm, he's probably playing so well it doesn't even matter.  But I think he will.

Before Dallas I may have argued this team could win without great QB play... Not anymore tho. it's clear we need Sam to be all he can be, and he has exceeded expectations so far.  I hope we get him some OL help somehow tho, it's unfair to ask him to run like hell all game.

  • Pie 1
  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't personally care about rates etc. Im just looking for Darnold to take the opportunities presented to him. If he never gets thm, he's probably playing so well it doesn't even matter.  But I think he will.

Before Dallas I may have argued this team could win without great QB play... Not anymore tho. it's clear we need Sam to be all he can be, and he has exceeded expectations so far.  I hope we get him some OL help somehow tho, it's unfair to ask him to run like hell all game.

That's all I'm trying to say.  There are expectations like not being the reason we lose, and there are unreasonable expectations like bringing the team back from a 20 point deficit every damn game.  

If we are only trying to mount a comeback in 1 out of every 4 games then personally that's pretty damn good to me.

Edited by Jon Snow
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's all I'm trying to say.  There are expectations like not being the reason we lose, and there are unreasonable expectations like bringing the team back from a 20 point deficit every damn game.  

If we are only trying to mount a comeback in 1 out of every 4 games then personally that's pretty damn good to me.

Oh for sure. In his first year as a starter for us he's on pace for 40 TDs, lol. And it feels like he still has room to grow.  We haven't had that kind of QB production since 2015... 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

Well remember it's not about how you start but how you finish. This group learned that firsthand after being up on the Cowboys in the first half. Sam's resiliency is what has impressed me most and he has shown he can quickly bounce back from mistakes so I expect he will make this happen so it's only a matter of when. I think most here have been quite fair overall to Darnold and that is why the oline has been such a point of debate people want to see him reach his potential while also acknowledging we need to make the most of opportunities.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
glenwo2 Grand Master

glenwo2

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

I know, right?

That's almost as ridiculous as someone believing that Passing TDs by our QB are way more important than Rushing TDs by our QB.   😏

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spatric Contributor

Spatric

Posted
Posted

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

  • Pie 1
  • Beer 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Thanks man! I really hope Saleh can turn it around for you guys, and that Wilson can get the help he needs to excel.  

The Panthers worked hard (and I'm sure still do) on consistency in Darnolds mechanics and it looks like it's paying off. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GRWatcher Mentor

GRWatcher

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Good luck to the Jets too. Just beat the Falcons tomorrow. That's all I ask of the Jets. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/8/2021 at 10:03 PM, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Welcome.

Congrats on your Tenn win.

I was impressed with your fanbase at the Panthers home game.  The ones in my section were very nice people.  

Edited by SBBlue
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I still had a sliver of hope when I made this thread, but I was concerned. The problems I saw in NY were starting to show up in a major way. That trend has continued and he's in full blown Jets mode now. Darnold is broken. Honestly, he's probably going to have to earn a backup role in the NFL after this. He'll be brought in somewhere to compete, but I don't think anyone will gift wrap a roster spot for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • LinvilleGorge
      2024 College Football Thread

      By LinvilleGorge · Posted

      I hate seeing this. I'm not sure he was ever going to make it in the NFL without the injury but that injury knocked FSU out of the college football playoffs and cost him and them and opportunity on the biggest stage in college sports. The injuries are the worst part of this game.
    • Jay Roosevelt
      Texas A&M Nic Scourton vs. Purdue Nic Scourton

      By Jay Roosevelt · Posted

      I don't know what Texas A&M was doing with their edge rushers. They had two freaks in Scourton and Shemar Stewart and yet instead of turning them loose they asked them to play 20 lbs overweight and just set the edge. That's full-on coaching malpractice at any level. Much was made about Shemar Stewart's lack of sack production, but while he wasn't my favorite prospect this year a lot of that was clearly what they were asking him to do. The good news with Scourton is that, unlike Stewart, did manage to be a huge factor as a pass rusher despite this and despite playing 20 lbs overweight. If he can stay around 260-265 it should help him re-gain some of that explosiveness from his Purdue days.
    • Icege
      Texas A&M Nic Scourton vs. Purdue Nic Scourton

      By Icege · Posted

      I did, but again we're aware of the practice in college of inflating height/weight as well as what is considered normal and his freshman weight tells a lot. There was a recent Raw Room episode where at one point they were discussing putting on their "big boy weight" when they go to the pros. It's common for guys to have to slap on 20lbs over the summer, but King Dunlap mentioned having to put on 30 and how much of a toll that took on his body. That makes the idea of putting on 50 at the college level even harder to believe. I've got experience with cutting weight and that type of drop sounds just awful... and that's even if doing it healthy and not just turning yourself into a piece of human jerky. Having to add 50? Noooooo thank yoooou. I can understand wanting to take Scourton at face value, but we didn't take Bryce at face value either (and for good reason!). Give the recently posted videos a shot. I watched the one you linked even though I've already seen it, so why not extend the same courtesy? I think you'll find yourself getting more excited about his Purdue tape than you will being irritated by what you believe are false narratives being pushed. 😄
×
×
  • Create New...