It's not that they don't care

[NAS]

On 12/20/2021 at 7:59 AM, Mr. Scot said:

Is that Scott Fitterer? Not sure, but I'd be willing to give he and Dan Morgan a chance to at least pick their own head coach and see what happens from there

This.  We have something good going with these two.  Coaching is the problem

[Icege]

In situations where we needed to see hope that a turn around was possible, Rhule instead doubled down and now we are seeing regression across the board.

That's unforgivable for a coaching staff.

[Jens]

And I mean mega-trusted Matt Rhule, to the tune of a seven year contract, huge money and full control of the team "program"

THIS IS TRUE, We will not be a contender with a failure college coach from Baylor/Temple.

How can Mr. Tepper allow this ?

[Jens]

On 12/20/2021 at 7:59 AM, Mr. Scot said:

For years on this board, people claimed that Jerry Richardson didn't care about winning.

I never believed that was true, still don't. Richardson definitely cared about winning. He just also had other priorities and, more importantly, didn't have the first clue how to build a consistent winning team.

In my mind, the same applies to Matt Rhule and his staff, especially with regard to the offensive line.

It's not that Rhule didn't or doesn't care about building an offensive line. He cared, still does. Darin Gantt has said more than once that everyone currently in the Panthers building sees the offensive line as this offseason's priority number one.

So that's good, right?

Uuummm, no

Reason being that the same problem still applies. Rhule may want a dominant line for all he's worth, but he doesn't know what that means at the NFL level or how to build it.

Which then takes us up the ladder to one David Tepper...

Anytime people discuss where Jerry Richardson went wrong, my top answer is always that he trusted the wrong people. It's okay for an owner to not know how to evaluate personnel and such as long as they hire and trust somebody who does.

Richardson trusted Marty Hurney.

So did David Tepper.

Then he trusted Matt Rhule.

And I mean mega-trusted Matt Rhule, to the tune of a seven year contract, huge money and full control of the team "program".

Oy

Have said it before, and I'll say it again: the best thing that could possibly happen to us this offseason is for David Tepper to absolutely stop trusting his own instincts. He needs a true football mind to guide him down the right path.

Is that Scott Fitterer? Not sure, but I'd be willing to give he and Dan Morgan a chance to at least pick their own head coach and see what happens from there.

The only thing I feel like I can say for sure right now about our desired and needed "football mind" is that it's not Matt Rhule...

... and it sure as hell isn't David Tepper.

 

[Jens]

Just now, Jens said:

 

Mr Scot, you are right. I Think Mr Richardson cared about winning.

[Jon Snow]

16 hours ago, OldhamA said:

If I was in charge I'd give him a year with an NFL quality OC and see what happens. 

I'm pretty much on my own here, but I see an inexperienced NFL HC who made a mistake with his OC hire (whether that was pushed on him as the hot name or not I don't know, but ultimately he carries the can for it) and is going to lose his job because of it. 

The defence is very good - not flawless, but very good - and the talent acquisition has been at the level it's needed to get to for years if he want to consistently compete for the Playoffs.

In my eyes Rhule is being punished for the 2 losing seasons and terrible roster Rivera left us with. "4 losing seasons!" is a cry I see often - dude wasn't here for 2 of them. It was always going to take a while to turn this ship around, but to quote a former Panthers HC "it is what it is". 

This fan base has turned toxic and turned on Rhule. He won't survive the offseason. 

If there is some unknown plan by Tepper to stay the course I would hope that Rhule would have to accept experienced NFL staff, OC at minimum. That would be the only reason for me to watch another season of that circus.

[jayboogieman]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:20 PM, Cary Kollins said:

Let’s not forget who showed up to Rhule’s house along with Tepper…one Marty Hurney. 
 

In other words, Hurney Magick is still flowing through this version of the Panthers franchise in the form of the Rhule Regime.

 

Tepper needs to let football people not named Hurney steer the ship from now on.

 

You can take the Panthers away from Marty when you pry them from his cold dead hands.

[jayboogieman]

19 hours ago, stbugs said:

Just some facts when we needed 1 starting CB, 1 starting QB and 4 starting OL:

CB: Used 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks, spent money to add Bouye and Gilmore.

OL: Used 3rd and 6th and spent money on Erving/Elflein.

For far less starting needs we sure used way more resources on QBs snd CBs.

Why do the Panthers need another starting CB? Even if Jackson and Gilmore walk, there are more than enough guys left to start at CB without signing or drafting another. You even point out that a lot of resources have been spent on corners.

[jayboogieman]

16 hours ago, OldhamA said:

If I was in charge I'd give him a year with an NFL quality OC and see what happens. 

I haven't turned toxic or on Rhule since I always thought he was a mediocre hire and thought the Panthers would win between 6-9 games this season and miss the playoffs, but that won't help. Rhule has years of coaching experience and looks way over his head in the NFL. Here are a few things that point to his being out of his depth off the top of my head.

• The QB issues.
• The way they handed the Oline. (Versatility)
• Hiring his college guys instead of more experienced NFL coaches.
• Not holding his coaches accountable. Think back to Brady going pass heavy when Rhule stated he wanted to run the ball more. As the HC, Rhule should never let his coaches contradict his vision for the team.
• Lack of adjustments during games.
• Misusing Chinn.
• Admitting Brady was a splash hire to impress/suck up to Tepper.

[Shotgun]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:07 AM, Khyber53 said:

Except keeping Fitterer, I agree with you wholeheartedly. 

Maybe if hes willing to take a demotion, but I would rather they clean house.

[mc52beast]

It’s really hard to evaluate Fitterer because Rhule has final say on any deals/signings. It could be that Scott is just doing what he’s told to do.

[Jon Snow]

13 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

It’s really hard to evaluate Fitterer because Rhule has final say on any deals/signings. It could be that Scott is just doing what he’s told to do.

Scott works for Rhule. Rhule has full control. The only thing we know about Scott is that he will throw draft positions around like darts. Those things have been established. 

[CarolinaRideorDie]

I think the biggest issue that ultimately will end Rhule's tenure as HC is his lack of a franchise QB. NFL head coaching career are tied directly to the quality of their QB. Rhule's fault is that he gambled on Teddy and Darnold. He honestly thought that they could be franchise QBs or that they can be salvaged = dead wrong. Franchise QBs don't hit the free agent market, only Tom Brady. He tried to salvage this season with signing Cam but Cam is also not the answer, this reeks of desperation. Maybe Rhule thinks his culture or process can be good enough to put any average QB in and succeed. I guarantee that if he does not have an answer for the QB this offseason, he will not last a full season next year. I don't think Tepper will fire him and will give him one last chance to correct his flaws. Year 3, Rhule's seat will be the hottest of all the hot seats! 

[Actionman0z]

On 12/20/2021 at 4:59 AM, Mr. Scot said:

For years on this board, people claimed that Jerry Richardson didn't care about winning.

I never believed that was true, still don't. Richardson definitely cared about winning. He just also had other priorities and, more importantly, didn't have the first clue how to build a consistent winning team.

In my mind, the same applies to Matt Rhule and his staff, especially with regard to the offensive line.

It's not that Rhule didn't or doesn't care about building an offensive line. He cared, still does. Darin Gantt has said more than once that everyone currently in the Panthers building sees the offensive line as this offseason's priority number one.

So that's good, right?

Uuummm, no

Reason being that the same problem still applies. Rhule may want a dominant line for all he's worth, but he doesn't know what that means at the NFL level or how to build it.

Which then takes us up the ladder to one David Tepper...

Anytime people discuss where Jerry Richardson went wrong, my top answer is always that he trusted the wrong people. It's okay for an owner to not know how to evaluate personnel and such as long as they hire and trust somebody who does.

Richardson trusted Marty Hurney.

So did David Tepper.

Then he trusted Matt Rhule.

And I mean mega-trusted Matt Rhule, to the tune of a seven year contract, huge money and full control of the team "program".

Oy

Have said it before, and I'll say it again: the best thing that could possibly happen to us this offseason is for David Tepper to absolutely stop trusting his own instincts. He needs a true football mind to guide him down the right path.

Is that Scott Fitterer? Not sure, but I'd be willing to give he and Dan Morgan a chance to at least pick their own head coach and see what happens from there.

The only thing I feel like I can say for sure right now about our desired and needed "football mind" is that it's not Matt Rhule...

... and it sure as hell isn't David Tepper.

I don’t think you know the first thing about what you’re talking about. Irving and elfline provided flexibility on the cheap in a year with little to no cap space. Let’s see what happens with Brady and Deonte before we jump off this cliff together.