Trading Back -- What It Might Look Like

[frankw]

I'm not against it but some people are buying into fantasy scenarios and on the same mantra as last year thinking Fitterer was playing 4D chess fooling the entire league. We aren't going to wheel and deal our way out of this. But we have to draft a quarterback. The only attempt we have made in ten years is Will Grier and that doesn't even count.

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

I pray to sweet baby Jesus every night that he is fired 

 

[SetfreexX]

4 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

I pray to sweet baby Jesus every night that he is fired 

take a closer look at the defense against better teams….you won’t like what you see.

Because the offense can't give them ANYTHING to work with, the defense has held up early / long enough versus the better teams. The issue is the offense can't score, therefore eventually the defense will crack. 

We're built to get after the opposing offense with enough run defense to survive early, it's why when we have had a lead we've looked relatively good on that side of the ball. 

[kungfoodude]

48 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

Yeah, but you also have to be careful passing up good players to acquire more on day 2 and 3, it's a balance, SEA trades back a lot and their drafts overall have not been great these past few years if memory serves off the top of my head aside from Metcalf.

Fitterer IMO had an impressive draft, but Rhule / the staff not getting guys like - TMJ, Christensen, Shi, and Brown on the field more while Tremble at least saw some work is what really concerns me.  

All of them showed well from what we got to see from camp / pre-season, yet our 2nd round pick TMJ hardly ever seemed to be involved in the offense even though we spend a good amount of time in 11 personnel. 

I was not as high on the draft as some were. IMO, it was slightly better than the relatively low expectations I had.

It wasn't a draft that made me think we don't have concerns in 2022. All the Madden-esque trading down was a massive red flag to me.

[SetfreexX]

9 minutes ago, frankw said:

I'm not against it but some people are buying into fantasy scenarios and on the same mantra as last year thinking Fitterer was playing 4D chess fooling the entire league. We aren't going to wheel and deal our way out of this. But we have to draft a quarterback. The only attempt we have made in ten years is Will Grier and that doesn't even count.

I'm not sold on these 22' QB's -- 23' looks more promising overall, and none of this matters if we DON'T have an offensive line. 

[frankw]

Just now, SetfreexX said:

I'm not sold on these 22' QB's -- 23' looks more promising overall, and none of this matters if we DON'T have an offensive line. 

People say that about QB's every year. Herbert was the whipping boy here then Mac Jones too. We don't know none of us have a crystal ball. If we take a quarterback let him learn while Darnold takes the punishment behind this work in progress line.

[SetfreexX]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I was not as high on the draft as some were. IMO, it was slightly better than the relatively low expectations I had.

It wasn't a draft that made me think we don't have concerns in 2022. All the Madden-esque trading down was a massive red flag to me.

All the guys we got via trade backs had pedigree -

TMJ was viewed as a 1st rounder, but medicals dropped him -- We failed to find him a role

Brady Christensen was one of the top rated LT's in college, age, and measurables dropped him -- when he FINALLY got to play his natural position, would you believe he actually looked good at LT

Tremble can block, can run, and catch -- Under Brady we didn't really feature the TE in 2020, and we didn't in 2021 either, though Tremble had plenty of flashes

Deonte Brown was a stalwart for ALA -- On our roster with UDFA Mike Jordan and Turnstile 2.0 Miller, we can't even get him on the field?

I think more than anything the staff / coaching decisions need to come under more scrutiny. Those 11 picks aside from the LS (Rhule) set us up nicely to move forward with less issues. 

Our OL could have been something similar to the following to start the season;

Christensen / Elflein / Paradis / Brown / Moton

With the only real weakness being Elf, as he's been better at his natural spot ''C'' as well. 

Instead we trot out;

Erving / Jordan / Paradis / Miller / Moton

Three of those spots we knew day 1, day freaking 1 those dudes were trash with no room to get better.

----------------------------------------------------

Similar to Ron, and moving on from vets, in year 2 I developed those same concerns about Rhule.   

[SetfreexX]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

People say that about QB's every year. Herbert was the whipping boy here then Mac Jones too. We don't know none of us have a crystal ball. If we take a quarterback let him learn while Darnold takes the punishment behind this work in progress line.

Both of them went to playoff caliber rosters with good coaches as well. 

LAC - Keenan Allen / Mike Williams / Eckler -- Bosa / Hayward / that corner from DEN who's name I can't think of, and James back healthy. 

NE - Got Trent Brown back, and ALREADY had one of the better OL's in the league, and solidified the defense in FA with guys like Judon, and added two of the best receiving TE's in the NFL (Henry / Smith)

Where you end up is important, neither one of them is likely to life a JAX (see Lawrence) or a DET caliber organization. 

People weren't enamored by the Baker / Darnold / Rosen class and look how they all turned out...all in new spots, with Baker potentially moved on from as well, and look at all he had to work with -- a top, literal top OL, receivers out the wazoo, and Austin Hooper at TE with one of the BEST backs in the league in Chubb, and overall it's been meh. However, you have to give some credit for a playoff appearance, because that defense was legit. 

[ForJimmy]

11 minutes ago, frankw said:

People say that about QB's every year. Herbert was the whipping boy here then Mac Jones too. We don't know none of us have a crystal ball. If we take a quarterback let him learn while Darnold takes the punishment behind this work in progress line.

Yep and this year was suppose to be Howell and Rattler at 1 and 2. Banking on next year is risky, plus we have no idea where we will be picking…

[TheProcess]

Trade pick 6

Get pick 15, 3rd, 6th, 2023 1st

 

Trade 15

Get 20, 2nd, 4th

Something along this scenario would be great to recoup and add a couple more for 2022. Then we roll into 2023 with 2 1st giving us ammo to go after one of those 2023 QB's

Linderbaum being a center us probably there at 20

[davos]

15 minutes ago, frankw said:

People say that about QB's every year. Herbert was the whipping boy here then Mac Jones too. We don't know none of us have a crystal ball. If we take a quarterback let him learn while Darnold takes the punishment behind this work in progress line.

Exactly.  People were ready to throw so much hate if Mac was drafted instead of an OL, same with Herbert.  And behold, we didn't take a OL or QB lol.

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yep and this year was suppose to be Howell and Rattler at 1 and 2. Banking on next year is risky, plus we have no idea where we will be picking…

We should have been picking Burrow at first overall but we had to have our culture building win streak with Kyle Allen. We could have made a move for Herbert too. We again convinced ourselves this year wasn't it and we are doing the same now. We never should have brought in Teddy or Sam if we were truly rebuilding like Rhule and Tepper first sold us when he was hired. But for me it's a tough sell to again convince myself to kick the can down the road. That's just how frustrating it is to be a Panthers fan rn.

Edited January 5, 2022 by frankw

[cookinbrak]

54 minutes ago, Smithers said:

The Giants game this week is huge.  IF the Giants win and we move to 5 (in front of both Giants picks), I could see Washington wanting to trade into our spot to get in front of the Giants if both teams are eyeing the same QB/player.  
 

we would go from 5 to 9, plus could get Washington’s 2nd or 3rd and an early pick next year.  

What if they tie? Neither has anything to gain and can only lose by winning. 

[NYPantherFan]

This draft is supposedly very deep with oline prospects and of course we don't have the day 2 picks for it. I'd be trading back at all costs to get into the 10-15 range and taking the best lineman available. Likely can grab a 2nd in that scenario and decide from there if I'm trading back any further depending on how the board is falling.