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Alright screw it, take Pickett


RumHam
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23 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Lance never played anyone with more talent on the roster than NDSU has so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Allen was just a guy who was rough around the edges but was a superb piece to cut and polish.

I do not want Willis at all. People say he crumbled against teams with more talent? So what.

App State's Zac Thomas took App State to Penn State and App was up 38-31 with 30 seconds left in that game. App went to UNC and USC and won in 2019. That USC team had beat UGA and UNC was a 2-point conversion from besting Clemson. Zac Thomas wasn't an NFL prospect and he managed to do that.

Willis, if he was a true 1st round pick, would have elevated his teammates, especially with a guy like Freeze designing the offense. Willis will be a massive bust and I don't even want to see the Panthers work him out.

Hell Lance struggled against Illinois St 10/21 no TDs and 11 rushes for 41 yards. What do you think he would have done against a SEC school? Again how did Allen do against better talented teams in college? Even Mahomes sucked it up against Iowa St who probably had less talent than Texas Tech. Willis would be a pick based on potential more than where he is at now. Similar to Lance and Allen. 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I keep wondering if the people who so badly want Willis have actually watched him when he's had to play against good competition.

I have, and it was ugly.

Literally watching the game vs. Ole Miss right now and all it's doing is solidifying him and Corral as better prospects than Pickett for me. Corral looks like the cleaner of the two, but Willis' ceiling is clearly higher.

His OL forgot they were playing that day from the looks of how it's played out so far. I noticed that Willis had 27 rushing attempts in the box score, which is likely a direct result of the OL play (further evidenced by the 9 sacks that he took, one of them coming on a 3-man rush).

One of his picks came as a result of a WR giving up and getting stripped. The one that he had at the end of the first half though was really bad and made concerned me about his ability to read a defense. He had a man heading up the middle of the field that looked like the better option from the moment the snap occurred.

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20 minutes ago, Icege said:

Literally watching the game vs. Ole Miss right now and all it's doing is solidifying him and Corral as better prospects than Pickett for me. Corral looks like the cleaner of the two, but Willis' ceiling is clearly higher.

His OL forgot they were playing that day from the looks of how it's played out so far. I noticed that Willis had 27 rushing attempts in the box score, which is likely a direct result of the OL play (further evidenced by the 9 sacks that he took, one of them coming on a 3-man rush).

One of his picks came as a result of a WR giving up and getting stripped. The one that he had at the end of the first half though was really bad and made concerned me about his ability to read a defense. He had a man heading up the middle of the field that looked like the better option from the moment the snap occurred.

Looks like someone actually is watching the game vs looking at the stats. Willis and Howell had awful OL play all year. 

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3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Looks like someone actually is watching the game vs looking at the stats. Willis and Howell had awful OL play all year. 

Holy poo Sam's OL was terrible. I've watched UNC vs. Pitt, WF, Duke, and ND so far (wanting to watch NC State so that I can watch Ekwonu as well) and he was constantly under duress.

The Liberty OL was supposed to be experienced but I read that their LG + RT dealt with injuries throughout the season. They look every bit the part of a bad OL tho.

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17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Related...

 

On the latest episode of PFN’s Between the Hashes podcast, PFN Chief Draft Analyst and NFL Insider Tony Pauline spoke at length about Pickett, touching on both his draft stock and the hand size concerns. Pauline began with Pickett’s draft stock and had this to say about where the Panthers passer is trending:

“The overall belief in the league is he’ll be the first quarterback drafted,” Pauline said. “He probably will be a first-round pick, but he’s really a third-round prospect. And he’ll be a first-round pick and the first quarterback drafted only because of the need at the position. I don’t know if Matt Corral passes him. I don’t think he does, but everything right now looks like Kenny Pickett will be the first quarterback drafted.

“We talked about last week: If he goes to the Senior Bowl, has a good week of practices, because the Senior Bowl is a king-maker at a lot of positions — most importantly the quarterback position. Carson Wentz, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers — guys who went there as Day 2 picks, fringe first-rounders, then just skyrocketed up draft boards. That’s the opportunity that is in front of Pickett, and I hope he takes hold of it.”

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The section in bold print is what concerns me. If Pickett had come out last year he likely would have been a Day 2 selection. I'd be a little nervous investing a top 6 pick on him, especially if the team has an O-line as bad as the 2021 Carolina Panthers.

Then again, the  2021 season had several teams starting QB's drafted outside of the 1st round:  Derek Carr, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kurt Cousins, and Tom Brady. So, Pauline's rating doesn't mean he'll never succeed in the NFL. No position seems more difficult to properly evaluate in pro football than QB.

 

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34 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

After reading your scouting report I'm beginning to think you need to get a job in the Panther scouting department 😃.

Just curious, where is Zappe projected to go in the 2022 draft?

If McCall is as good as you say he is then he should be picked in the top 5 for sure. More than one team will seriously consider trading up to get him if they need a QB. Since Rhule is returning, I'd be surprised if we're not picking in the top 12-15.

Who are the other top prospects in 2023?

 

 

I just follow G5 football closely since I'm an App State fan and ECU alum. The only guys I know of that I'd be really interested in taking this year and next year are Zappe and McCall.

McCall will be a first round pick, maybe even top 10. Zappe was a system player at Houston Baptist and then WKU but in a true spread offense he could be dynamite in the NFL with his ball placement, reaction time, and football IQ.

I really, really want McCall though.

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7 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

On the latest episode of PFN’s Between the Hashes podcast, PFN Chief Draft Analyst and NFL Insider Tony Pauline spoke at length about Pickett, touching on both his draft stock and the hand size concerns. Pauline began with Pickett’s draft stock and had this to say about where the Panthers passer is trending:

“The overall belief in the league is he’ll be the first quarterback drafted,” Pauline said. “He probably will be a first-round pick, but he’s really a third-round prospect. And he’ll be a first-round pick and the first quarterback drafted only because of the need at the position. I don’t know if Matt Corral passes him. I don’t think he does, but everything right now looks like Kenny Pickett will be the first quarterback drafted.

“We talked about last week: If he goes to the Senior Bowl, has a good week of practices, because the Senior Bowl is a king-maker at a lot of positions — most importantly the quarterback position. Carson Wentz, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers — guys who went there as Day 2 picks, fringe first-rounders, then just skyrocketed up draft boards. That’s the opportunity that is in front of Pickett, and I hope he takes hold of it.”

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The section in bold print is what concerns me. If Pickett had come out last year he likely would have been a Day 2 selection. I'd be a little nervous investing a top 6 pick on him, especially if the team has an O-line as bad as the 2021 Carolina Panthers.

Then again, the  2021 season had several teams starting QB's drafted outside of the 1st round:  Derek Carr, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kurt Cousins, and Tom Brady. So, Pauline's rating doesn't mean he'll never succeed in the NFL. No position seems more difficult to properly evaluate in pro football than QB.

 

To be clear, I'm not a fan.

I do, however, suspect he could be our pick based on not just the hype but also his prior relationship with Matt Rhule.

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I did watch the game.

Even allowing for the OL issues, I wasn't impressed with his passing or his running.

Wasn’t trying to single you out, just in general people are looking at Willis and Howell’s stats during certain games without watching the tape. The stats are important, but don’t tell the full story IMO. Willis is definitely raw, but has a cannon for an arm and can launch it off the run. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

To be clear, I'm not a fan.

I do, however, suspect he could be our pick based on not just the hype but also his prior relationship with Matt Rhule.

Didn't Rhule try to recruit him?

Now, i want to go O-line, especially since we won't pick again until round four. But, I wouldn't jump out of a 10 story window if we did get him. If we somehow obtained a quality interior lineman prior to the draft and a decision was made to let BC settle in at LT for the 2022 season, I could probably accept the decision to take a QB at 6 (whether it's Picket or someone else). Let's be honest, even if Pickett is average, I can't see him being any worse than any of the QB's on our roster last year. In addition to that, he's a rookie so he'd have room to improve his game with better coaching.

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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