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No more Watson threads. Use this one or one of the other 20 existing ones.


rayzor
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4 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

The majority of the folks on r/Saints sub really do not want Watson. 

Texans, Seahawks, and Saints forums/r's all have said the same thing "Panthers have better assets, they will win this deal"

I guess people do see our rosters as talented outside of this circle. Maybe Watson and his Agent see it too.

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2 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Keep in mind that Deshaun has the final say here 

What a team offers the Texans in return has now become secondary to where Deshaun chooses to play for

Texans prefer our trade package bc we have something better than draft picks, we have young building block players still on their rookie contracts. 

Assume the Saints offer is less than what the Panthers offer but Deshaun tells the Texans he wants to be traded to New Orleans, that’s it they have no choice but to trade him to where he wants to go.

This is true, Watson does hold the cards as we get into this portion of the trade discussions. But Carolina’s ability to match Houston’s needs via trade keeps them in the mix. I don’t know anyone who truly knows what Watson thinks about Carolina, their situation, or how his presence there would translate to w’s. I don’t know what do you thinks about the coach, I don’t know how he feels about the OC, I do know he likes Sean Ryan. Watson paired with a healthy McCaffrey would look and feel dynamic. 

The Panthers could also, presumably, renegotiate/restructure Watson’s current deal, leveling out, while converting some of the 22 cap charge to signing bonus (cash). From there, if permitted, the Panthers would likely look to use contractual restructure as a selling point for Watson, using some of their upcoming salary cap as the “Watson Fund” of sorts. A huge bump in salary/years, or some variation thereof would likely END DW’s unspoken, assumed reluctance to play here.

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7 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

so like the past 4 seasons of patiently waiting...another 2-3 of just being terrible shuffling through the likes of teddy bridgewater and sam darnold but, doing it the "correct way"....just smh

You shot your down your own argument and didn't even realize it, lol!  Quick fix trades are not the right way unless all the organization is lacking...literally the missing link, is the QB.  The right way is to draft a guy, but unfortunately that's a year away.

This team is a dumpster fire, heck even Aaron Rodgers couldn't save this team right now.  But sure, let's go for the 'quick fix' wit a dude that has legal issues.

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1 minute ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

Exactly,  Burns was a 2nd round pick. You can find a player like him in the draft. Burns will need to be paid big money in a couple years.  You can't let that stop you from getting a franchise QB.

Burns was a 1st. And you can't replace your passrush through the draft when you don't have picks

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8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I would just hope we could avoid giving up both Burns and Chinn. Honestly, it might be a deal breaker for me.

I was thinking the same thing a couple of weeks ago, but started coming to the realization that this was a conversation that would probably be broached, at the very least, by Houston. 

Again, no confirmation from my end that both will be packaged in an offer together. 

 

Oh man, if New Orleans is in the lead in the final hours, it would feel like a Tep move to simply overextend and fork out more just to win the trade. 

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14 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

Which teams in the last 20 years have "patiently" rebuilt for 4-5 seasons and actually had that work out? 

The Seahawks a while back and more currently the Chiefs.  It appears the Bengals and Bills are about there as well.

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5 minutes ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

Exactly,  Burns was a 2nd round pick. You can find a player like him in the draft. Burns will need to be paid big money in a couple years.  You can't let that stop you from getting a franchise QB.

Hahahahaha what??!  Burns was our 2019 first round pick. Did you just start watching football?

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5 minutes ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

Exactly,  Burns was a 2nd round pick. You can find a player like him in the draft. Burns will need to be paid big money in a couple years.  You can't let that stop you from getting a franchise QB.

Burns was a first round pick.  Come on man

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10 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

Eh, I get it if you think the picks and the totality of it are too much, but if you're already that deep into it, no way you can let Burns, Chinn, or both be a deal-breaker for a franchise QB. 

You can't give up three 1st round picks and probably more draft assets plus your two best young defensive players. That's gutting your roster.

For the record, I meant both would be the deal breaker for me. I fully expect the Texans to demand Burns as part of the deal.

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Just now, therealmjl said:

lmao the bengals patiently rebuilt? they slipped into a bonafide franchise QB and he carried them to the super bowl in his second season.

So Burrow carried that team all by himself?  I'm pretty sure the defense was pretty solid and they went out and got Burrow some weapons.  If anything Burrow developed a season quicker than most would have thought.  For Bengals' fans, that's a great thing.

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What I think makes matter worse is Houston knows we are all in on Watson. Tepper is making sure that we lose negotiation power by asserting our desires to have him.  

The price is going to be steep.  The maximum I would give up is 3 firsts and a former first round pick.  There is no way in hell I would give up 3 first and 2 or 3 former first round picks and only get Watson. 

Here's a thought?  Any potential three way deals for all you couch potato GMs.? 😆

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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