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2023 qb class - Some good news

mrcompletely11

By mrcompletely11,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
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34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Like what I've seen of Phil Jurkovec.

DJ Uiagalelei? Not so much.

Also saw loads of people raving about Cameron Rising after the Manning passing academy.

Phil Jurkovec seems fine. I don't know that I have seen much that makes me think he would be much better than most of the 2022 class(all of which I thought were bad NFL prospects). 

DJ doesn't belong on a list of any sort of NFL prospects.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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31 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

Van Dyke and Leary both have a chance to be franchise guys. Both dudes can really spin the ball. Jurkovich on the other hand, I have not been impressed with.

Leary??

Yeah, I can't get behind that. He's a decent college player but I see very little NFL potential.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Justin Fields' second year might have a lot of influence on his draft stock.

He has not been set up for success in Chicago.  No weapons and a shitty line...  I hope he can overcome it, but they are giving him less help than we gave Cam.  

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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11 minutes ago, frankw said:

This place hated Justin Herbert with a passion. But hey it's a crazy concept to just wait and see how these prospects perform and meet expectations in their upcoming season.

Maybe this place but I was on record as saying he was the best QB prospect in that draft. I think you mean @LinvilleGorge who infamously had a hate boner for Herbert.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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16 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Stroud seems to have the tools, but his team is so loaded and so much more talented than any of those Big 10 schools he goes against.  That is one of the reasons it is so hard to get a read on OSU QBs.  

"Scout the player, not the school."I hear that all the time.

It's really only partially valid though...

The problem is that more often than not, when players from a certain school have a history of failing at the pro level, there's generally a systemic reason.

Take the longtime knock on Florida State edge rushers. The school has had a tendency to use "tweener" types in that spot, and at the college level it works for them. But the ones who get drafted to pro teams who slot them as 4-3 defensive ends frequently have issues against the run.

Are there exceptions? Sure there are, but when you pick a player hoping he's that exception, you're taking a risk.

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Panthercougar68 Grand Master

Panthercougar68

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My general thought process is that scouting QBs takes a lot more then watching the ooooo and ahhhh throws and getting behind the player. If finding a QB in college was easy everyone would have their qb but there are so many factors that go into it

and yes LUCK does have some factor too such as the year/position you’re drafting. 

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Panthera onca Mentor

Panthera onca

Posted
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15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Leary??

Yeah, I can't get behind that. He's a decent college player but I see very little NFL potential.

We will see how he does this season, but he was a 35 and 5 guy last season. He is a pure pocket passer with good feet and pocket movement and can read defenses quite well, with a cannon arm.

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Tr3ach Grand Master

Tr3ach

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2 hours ago, frankw said:

Just like this year and the year before the hype will slowly fizzle and we will return to the same hand wringing over the flaws of the top quarterbacks.

This time last year everyone was drooling over Sam Howell and Spencer Rattler as top 5 picks.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

McCall has had a much better passing career so far even though he’s almost 2 years younger. I could see preferring McCall with the height difference as well. McCall is much younger but already looks way more polished than Willis. As to comparing him to Leaf, that makes no sense but preferring McCall to Willis isn’t hard to get.

I don't think he liked last years class in general. More of a statement on the way people play favorites instead of just focusing on the talent and merits of a prospect. I'll just be glad when we finally have our guy and don't have to listen to everyone bloviate about their expertise in quarterback evaluation.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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21 minutes ago, Panthercougar68 said:

My general thought process is that scouting QBs takes a lot more then watching the ooooo and ahhhh throws and getting behind the player. If finding a QB in college was easy everyone would have their qb but there are so many factors that go into it

and yes LUCK does have some factor too such as the year/position you’re drafting. 

Highlight reel scouting leads to bad takes.

Ted Nguyen lamented how, even at the pro level, some quarterback scouting has started to emphasize athleticism over technique, intelligence and decision making. People get the idea that they can take a physical specimen who doesn't have a lot of real "quarterback" skills and just coach him up.

Reality is that strategy fails as often as it succeeds (arguably more).

The smarter move is to take the guy who has shown he can actually play quarterback. If he's also a superior athlete, great. But if not, it isn't that big a deal.

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rippadonn Grand Master

rippadonn

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54 minutes ago, frankw said:

This place hated Justin Herbert with a passion. But hey it's a crazy concept to just wait and see how these prospects perform and meet expectations in their upcoming season.

I was on the official get Justin Herbert at all cost bandwagon here. I thought Marty was on the team, but I guess Marty was overRhuled.

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rippadonn Grand Master

rippadonn

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2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I didn’t either. Corral isn’t a bad risk, but damn we need a real QB bad. What we’ve had to deal with since 2019 or even second half of 2018 when teams knew Cam had no power, has been awful.

Corral has a very high ceiling and if we can get the MAN out there and let the MAN start at QB like Mac did, like Zach did and if he does better than either guy our franchise is saved. Instead, McAdoo is tasked with reforming used goods that don't even smell fresh, something about head up ass.

That's Rhule intentionally sabotaging McAdoo with failed Baker because if he had Corral playing like a OROY by the end of the season he'd get the next hottest coach train outta here!

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rippadonn Grand Master

rippadonn

Posted
Posted (edited)

If we need to draft a QB because Corral isn't capable, that's something we desperately need to know BEFORE the next draft.

Bubble wrap and tummy rubs and spoon-feeding delays his development IMO.

Didn't help Sam last year that's for damn sure.

Edited by rippadonn
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    • CRA
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By CRA · Posted

      I don't need that many words to say Bryce Young has not yet surpassed the caliber of QB play that current Joe Flacco represents.   I have watched every game Bryce has played.  He doesn't give you average QB play.   He can't make a ton of throws.  Bryce is consistent overall in what he is.  You can take outlier games on both ends of the spectrum out of play and judge him or any QB.....for Bryce it is unquestioned bottom of the league play.  All you have to do is watch the two play.  Flacco is good enough that if you can keep up right and give him time.....he presents a level of play Bryce can't do as a passer  
    • ForJimmy
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By ForJimmy · Posted

      Not sure.  Which ones have more GWDs in the same time frame?
    • MasterAwesome
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By MasterAwesome · Posted

      You kinda gloss over this, but this is really at the crux of this whole argument....which Flacco are we talking here?  You bring up that he played with 3 different teams but ignore the fact that his performance varied quite a bit from team to team. 2024 Colts: 65.3% completion, 12 TDs, 7 INTs, 220.1 YPG, 7.1 Y/A, 90.5 rating 2025 Browns: 58.1% completion, 2 TDs, 6 INTs, 203.8 YPG, 5.1 Y/A, 60.3 rating 2025 Bengals: 63.4% completion, 12 TDs, 3 INTs, 290.6 YPG, 6.8 Y/A, 96.2 rating 2025 Flacco (Browns + Bengals): 61.1% completion, 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 252.0 YPG, 6.1 Y/A, 80.8 rating vs. 2025 Bryce: 62.7% completion, 14 TDs, 7 INTs, 196.2 YPG, 6.2 Y/A, 86.0 rating I bolded the comparison that I think objectively makes the most sense...just simply comparing the two QBs for the entire season.  Otherwise you'd be cherry-picking Flacco's time with the Bengals and ignoring his earlier stint with the Browns, which sounds an awful lot like people cherry-picking Bryce's stats in the second half of last season. So again, which Flacco?  Basically the only thing consistent with Flacco across each of these teams was his W/L records: 2-4, 1-3, and 1-4 respectively.  I'd say if we're comparing each version of him to Bryce this year: Colts Flacco > 2025 Bryce, Browns Flacco <<< 2025 Bryce, Bengals Flacco >> 2025 Bryce, and 2025 Flacco < 2025 Bryce - Flacco this year only beats out Bryce on YPG but in part because he throws significantly more passes (almost 60 YPG more than Bryce, despite a lower Y/A which is pretty telling) .  Flacco is maybe the most apt case study about how important a QB's circumstances are to his success.  He was easily a bottom 3 QB in Cleveland and arguably top 10-15 in Cincinnati...and we're talking about the same player from the same season.  All that happened was taking him from one team and plopping him onto another team; nothing inherently changed about him as a QB.  Funny enough I think that's all that one dude on here was trying to say when he made that long poorly-received post after having an epiphany working for PFF behind the scenes or w/e.  That it's largely short-sighted to just try to evaluate QBs in a vacuum when there are so many variables at play that ultimately decide whether a QB is successful or not.   I think Bryce has been mediocre at best this season and I'm ready to move on regardless of how he ends this season - I'm highly skeptical a strong end to the season will carry over into next year considering how last year ended and this year began.  I would certainly agree that he's a bottom-third QB this year.  I just don't understand you scoffing indignantly at anyone holding the opinion that Bryce has had a better season than Flacco...I can only assume it's recency bias.  Or maybe you know the stats don't support you, which is why you're conjuring up the god-forsaken arbitrary "eyeball test" which is the kinda thing people in here were saying about Fields for years, pinky promising that he really truly was a franchise QB despite his awful stats.  Perhaps it's called the eyeball test because I roll my eyes anytime I hear someone bring it up seriously as an argument.
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