Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Real Talk


joemac
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I’ll never understand this “blow everything up” mentality. I can only assume it’s petulance. You don’t build a good team by discarding all the good players. The only good player that should even be considered is CMC and ONLY if we get a significant return for him. I only say him because of the risk of injury and probable longevity at that position.  Otherwise, people saying trade Burns, Chinn, DJ, we’re not likely to get equal in the draft with whatever picks we get for them. Probably not even close. Makes no sense. 

A team like the Giants looked to be in a worse situation than us a year ago and now theyre 5-1. Im not gettting rid of any of our young talented players until we see what kind of coach and QB we end up with in the offseason. Cap space and draft capital doesnt translate to wins on the field. Players and coaches do. I honestly dont think Rhule had a bad approach to building the team other than the QB situation. If Herbert falls one more pick to us were probably sitting here right now talking about how quickly we built one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league in less than 3 years

  • Pie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Waldo said:

Anyone that gets a rediculous bid and any vet on a 2nd contract. The guys on rookie contracts should be safe. Horn, Brown, Ickey, Chinn, BC and whoever I am forgetting are solid building blocks on the cheap.

Load up o 2023 and 2024 picks.

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

Where is the talent?  We have a few decent olineman, a good pass rusher, a good tackle and a good running back.  What am I missing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

Yup. I think we lose some we want to keep but that want a change after this kind of failure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KillaCamNewton said:

A team like the Giants looked to be in a worse situation than us a year ago and now theyre 5-1. Im not gettting rid of any of our young talented players until we see what kind of coach and QB we end up with in the offseason. Cap space and draft capital doesnt translate to wins on the field. Players and coaches do. I honestly dont think Rhule had a bad approach to building the team other than the QB situation. If Herbert falls one more pick to us were probably sitting here right now talking about how quickly we built one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league in less than 3 years

Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, AU-panther said:

I agree thatt you can't always be getting rid of all of your players but you have to factor in the cap.

The players you get in the draft don't have to be as good, you are forgetting about the cap savings.

Lets say player A is a really good player about to off of his rookie contract.  2 options here, pay player A $20m a year, or trade player a for a 2nd round pick and use the $20m to sign a player in free agency that is almost just as good.  The pick is almost just bonus.

Brian Burns with a $8m cap hit doesn't have the same value as a $32m cap hit.

This is the problem with being this bad, we are missing on taking advantage of some good players on cheap contracts.  Lets say we go the rookie QB route next year, even if you select the right one, realistically you are really looking at 2-3 years before being really competitive. 

 

 

The cap can be worked without giving away your good young players at a loss in value. The Giants were terrible with a terrible QB last year. They look pretty competitive to me. Bengals went from #1 overall to in the Super Bowl.  We get the right coach and QB combo, there’s no waiting period on how fast we can be competitive. Just boils down to getting those two spots right. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Where is the talent?  We have a few decent olineman, a good pass rusher, a good tackle and a good running back.  What am I missing?

A good WR, a good LB, a great secondary, a really good DT and another good DT. Pretty much most of the team except QB and TE. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, onmyown said:

You’re not understanding it because you don’t appear to be considering the cap. It isn’t looking great. Money was spent on sub par players like Anderson and Thomas. Shaq’s contract makes me want to vomit. DJ is a mediocre contract but if his motivation falls anymore off a cliff it will turn to bad. And that’s likely, 

You have to consider the future, and in saying that you have to realize when getting a pick is better than having to let a player walk.

Historically, the Panthers have been god awful at realizing this. And historically the Panthers are a bad team. However if you look at other teams, keeping a healthy cap by making solid moves before forced by hand and then being able to sign the RIGHT players/pieces at will (Bills) are signs of a proper rebuild, and not being stuck.

Sometimes hard choices need to be made, you hate to see it, but you see it all over the NFL all the time. You can’t sign Chinn, Brown, and Burns…you just can’t. You need to consider timing.

However ideally the new coach and his vision/plan should big a huge factor, only problem is 5th year options and/or pissing a player off not paying them when you’re trying to figure things out and you risk letting them walk. Tag and trade is always an option but you then basically waste your tag and makes trade talks more difficult.

So yea, it’s not just about the player.

 

I’m absolutely considering the cap and the only bad contract we have is Shaq (and Anderson but he’s gone anyway). No one is trading for him. DJ’s contract is a steal since Hill and Kirk and those guys blew up the WR market.  The cap can be managed. You can’t just throw away good players because you’re afraid of the cap. We absolutely can sign Burns and then later Brown and Chinn. The cap killer is the QB and we won’t have to pay big QB money for a while. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see the appeal of blowing things up and getting picks for guys, but it's just not that easy.  

First, as soon as "fire sale" goes through the NFL, all values are depreciated.  Teams will wait and get the deal they want.  They aren't going to throw 1s when they can get our players for 3s and 5s in a few week before the deadline.

Second, we can't "worry" about the cap and then talk about eating 10s of millions of dollars in dead cap cash.  Robby is $20 by himself, and he's probably getting cut this week.  CMC is like $30.  DJ or DJax just signed deals so that would be a lot of dead money as well.  Guys are under contract.   They are going to have to play, that's just the way it is.

Third, the draft is a crapshoot.  We all know this.  Fitterer has a mixed bag of draft history, but it's hard to qualify because of the Rhule effect.  While on one hand, it's better to have more shots at players, it's another to bet your entire future on rookies.

Finally, if we can get the right coach, then we can see our fortunes change.  That's just the reality of things.  Year after year, teams who suck get better coaching and they turn it around.  We have some really good pieces on D, and our OL is MILES better than it's been in a long time.  DJ is a quality player, and CMC is one of the best in the NFL (when healthy).  

So if in 2023, we get a better coach, get lucky with the QB selection, then there's little reason that 2023 won't be a LOT more fun as a fan.  We could also see ourselves in playoff contention much sooner than later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Exactly what I was going to say. Brady seems to be taking a page out of Olsen's playbook, which is probably a good thing. They'll probably get around to giving Brady an Emmy one day, and he should thank Olsen for giving him the blueprint for success.
    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
×
×
  • Create New...