DARNOLD

[Wundrbread33]

2 hours ago, travisura said:

Darnold is going into his 6th year. We know what he is, and what he is not. I cannot believe that folks *STILL* think he's the guy.

What do you mean by “he’s the guy”?

 

I don’t see many saying that. I see people talking about him being a bridge QB, backup, or a “manage the game” type guy. 
 

I take your wording as “believing he’s the future at the position for the franchise” and I don’t think that’s what people are saying. 
 

Regarding this being his 6th year, I think the more important number is his age. At 25-26, he is entering mental maturity as a person. 
 

I agree that he shouldn’t be considered “the guy” but that also seems like a monster that you created to slay. 

[onmyown]

11 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

You are asking me? All I have to go on is what they say and what they do.

Frank said from the start that they plan to win this season. They are not rebuilding.  So how are they going to do that?  They will have to find a starting qb from day 1. Is there one in this draft? I cannot see one. So the only thing left is to find a starter to line up under center while the get a rookie ready, if they manage to draft one in the 1st that is.  I'm curious to know how they pull that off.

Meh…I feel like without a franchise QB or an historically elite defense, a team is always basically rebuilding. The

Panthers don’t have either.

And it’s coach speak anyways. No coach is going to say they aren’t going to try and win just yet.

But I do think they draft a QB. I also think Burns will be traded for the ability to do that.

I do not believe Reich will have a winning season year 1.

In any case who really cares what happens with Darnold? I mean think about it…he isn’t the future and so the options are stay and be a cheap backup, stay and be a cheap QB for 3-4 games until a rookie comes in then be a back up, or don’t get resigned at all. Doesn’t anyone truly care what happens out of those? 

[Jon Snow]

12 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Meh…I feel like without a franchise QB or an historically elite defense, a team is always basically rebuilding. The

Panthers don’t have either.

And it’s coach speak anyways. No coach is going to say they aren’t going to try and win just yet.

But I do think they draft a QB. I also think Burns will be traded for the ability to do that.

I do not believe Reich will have a winning season year 1.

In any case who really cares what happens with Darnold? I mean think about it…he isn’t the future and so the options are stay and be a cheap backup, stay and be a cheap QB for 3-4 games until a rookie comes in then be a back up, or don’t get resigned at all. Doesn’t anyone truly care what happens out of those? 

My guess is Sam would fall in the category of being that plan C ,backup for the future rookie starter. He's forced to start because the rook isn't ready.

What I'm starting to think is that it's coming down to going all in for a shot at one of the top 3 or signing Carr and draft whatever qb's left at 9.  They could also take the best edge rusher left on the board and go for qb at the bottom of the 1st but I get the sense Fitterer would go TE or WR in that situation and look to get a qb in the second. After getting a qb they would then use the rest of the picks on TE, WR and defense. 

There's just too many options available to settle just one.

[MasterAwesome]

5 hours ago, CRA said:

Cool.  I notice you opted to not respond to the 2 stats I shared that countered your obviously flawed analysis that Sam Darnold was vastly improved in 2022.   

Sam Darnold had a window with an improved TD and INT %.  That's it.  That's the only argument.  And it requires you to ignore everything else.  Outside of that he wasn't even accounting for average offensive production for a NFL QB.   Not yards.  Not passing TDs.  He was accountable for below average offensive production.  Then on top of that lower-than-average offensive production, he had a lower completion % and was putting the ball on the ground at a higher rate (even for Sam who has been horrific at that his entire career dating back to college). 

Sam Darnold is a bad QB.  If knowledgeable observers think Sam Darnold is a good QB? Or that he showed real growth?   Well, I'll let that statement speak for itself. 

Pretty sure last offseason we went at it too.  You were on your soapbox claiming superior knowledge as I called out what was obviously going to happen with the pairing of Matt Rhule and Ben McAdoo.  And it went exactly as I called it.   

Now, me saying Sam Darnold is bad and calling the 2022 Matt Rhule correctly doesn't actually make me smart.  It just means I can see and state the obvious.  

and I was right in 2021 too when folks were pimping Sam after a couple games.  It was fools gold then too.  Bad Sam was clearly still there.   Even old Jet fanboys like Mike Greenburg could see it.  They tried to warn folks.  And people were arguing the same thing you are now.  

So what happens if we do end up re-signing Darnold? Hell, we’re already reportedly having preliminary talks with him which should already set off alarms for you. Is this new highly touted coaching staff with universal league-wide respect, just a bunch of blind delusional buffoons or what? That’s the problem with taking these arrogant hard-line positions on how “obvious” it is that a player is trash - it becomes pretty awkward when a respected non-Rhule coaching staff ends up signing him.

[TLGPanthersFan]

58 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

So what happens if we do end up re-signing Darnold? Hell, we’re already reportedly having preliminary talks with him which should already set off alarms for you. Is this new highly touted coaching staff with universal league-wide respect, just a bunch of blind delusional buffoons or what? That’s the problem with taking these arrogant hard-line positions on how “obvious” it is that a player is trash - it becomes pretty awkward when a respected non-Rhule coaching staff ends up signing him.

I will definitely question their ability to evaluate QBs. Especially QBs with 5 years of some of the worst tape ever for that position. 

[TLGPanthersFan]

7 hours ago, panthers55 said:

QBR is like judging defenses by total yards surrendered. There are surely other measures and some might be superior but it gives us a comparison level that has become standard in the NFL.

It still is a terrible stat for saying a QB was good. Sam Darnold was not good. He was boring and if it wasn’t for the running game he would have sucked sooner. 

[TLGPanthersFan]

7 hours ago, CRA said:

Cool.  I notice you opted to not respond to the 2 stats I shared that countered your obviously flawed analysis that Sam Darnold was vastly improved in 2022.   

Sam Darnold had a window with an improved TD and INT %.  That's it.  That's the only argument.  And it requires you to ignore everything else.  Outside of that he wasn't even accounting for average offensive production for a NFL QB.   Not yards.  Not passing TDs.  He was accountable for below average offensive production.  Then on top of that lower-than-average offensive production, he had a lower completion % and was putting the ball on the ground at a higher rate (even for Sam who has been horrific at that his entire career dating back to college). 

Sam Darnold is a bad QB.  If knowledgeable observers think Sam Darnold is a good QB? Or that he showed real growth?   Well, I'll let that statement speak for itself. 

Pretty sure last offseason we went at it too.  You were on your soapbox claiming superior knowledge as I called out what was obviously going to happen with the pairing of Matt Rhule and Ben McAdoo.  And it went exactly as I called it.   

Now, me saying Sam Darnold is bad and calling the 2022 Matt Rhule correctly doesn't actually make me smart.  It just means I can see and state the obvious.  

and I was right in 2021 too when folks were pimping Sam after a couple games.  It was fools gold then too.  Bad Sam was clearly still there.   Even old Jet fanboys like Mike Greenburg could see it.  They tried to warn folks.  And people were arguing the same thing you are now.  

It is pretty obvious at this point that people will keep thinking Darnold can be good until it is obvious he won’t be on the team anymore. 
Until then this small contingent of annoying Darnold fans will keep creating topics and being just really annoying. 

[travisura]

12 hours ago, Wundrbread33 said:

What do you mean by “he’s the guy”?

 

I don’t see many saying that. I see people talking about him being a bridge QB, backup, or a “manage the game” type guy. 
 

I take your wording as “believing he’s the future at the position for the franchise” and I don’t think that’s what people are saying. 
 

Regarding this being his 6th year, I think the more important number is his age. At 25-26, he is entering mental maturity as a person. 
 

I agree that he shouldn’t be considered “the guy” but that also seems like a monster that you created to slay. 

I commented on a post where the OP compared Darnold to Jared Goff, and directly implied that he'd be good enough to lead a turn around, and potentially even a super bowl. This is not a monster of my own creation.

[panthers55]

8 hours ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

It still is a terrible stat for saying a QB was good. Sam Darnold was not good. He was boring and if it wasn’t for the running game he would have sucked sooner. 

It is one that has historically been used to compare qbs so it has legitimacy and long standing. You don't ignore it just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

[frankw]

13 hours ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Regarding this being his 6th year, I think the more important number is his age. At 25-26, he is entering mental maturity as a person.

Darnold will be 35 and some people will still be arguing he's still got a few years to put it all together. I've just never seen this with anyone else. When compared to the years of whining from a significant number of Panthers fans about Cam Newton in his prime and people saying things like he'd never have a game winning drive it's even more cringe.

[panthers55]

8 hours ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

It is pretty obvious at this point that people will keep thinking Darnold can be good until it is obvious he won’t be on the team anymore. 
Until then this small contingent of annoying Darnold fans will keep creating topics and being just really annoying. 

Lots of people think he did pretty good.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/37267/sam-darnold-putting-panthers-himself-in-position-for-success-by-staying-patient%3fplatform=amp

 

Again no one says we shouldn't draft a qb but the question is whether Darnold at say 15 million is a better value for example than Carr at 30 mil. And whether he can start until a younger guy can take over.. Should be interesting what they decide with Carr on Monday after seeing and interviewing the draft class.

[stratocatter]

ehh, I’d rather take another shot to stave off watching two years go by with no high picks and a poo QB they took because…. we have to draft our own, NOW. 
 

Hell a properly officiated game in Atlanta the Panthers Would have been in the playoffs, as bad as they were.

 If Rhule would not have been such a dumbass they’d have never brought in Mayfield maybe this poo would be better resolved.  
 

Throwing Darnold away for a new flavor of not great either, just new…. that’s what they did last year. 

[Shotgun]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Lots of people think he did pretty good.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/37267/sam-darnold-putting-panthers-himself-in-position-for-success-by-staying-patient%3fplatform=amp

 

Again no one says we shouldn't draft a qb but the question is whether Darnold at say 15 million is a better value for example than Carr at 30 mil. And whether he can start until a younger guy can take over.. Should be interesting what they decide with Carr on Monday after seeing and interviewing the draft class.

Neither of those options are a good value. 

[panthers55]

18 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Neither of those options are a good value. 

Reich needs to have a winning season given Wilks went 6-6 with a revolving door of qbs and didn't get to pick his players or coaches like Reich did. So the days of starting a rookie and going 4-13 aren't going to cut it. We need a qb who can win now and allow any rookie to develop over time as has been traditionally the case. Mahomes benefitted greatly from sitting a year and watching Alex Smith for example. What vet is a better value??