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Per Matt Miller.. Panthers all in on Richardson?

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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Hoenheim Grand Master

Hoenheim

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're not drafting a player based on what he did in college. You're drafting him based on what you think you can develop him into in the NFL. Josh Allen threw for 1800 yards at a 56% clip in his final college season. The Bills certainly don't regret that risk even though I thought they were probably fuging up hugely at the time.

You can't just assume every project will be Josh Allen imo people love to use exceptional cases and treat them like they're the norm 

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Icege Grand Master

Icege

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Stroud didn’t look like “Stroud vs Georgia” for most of his career either.  Was that a bit of an anomaly or a glimpse of what you can expect in the future? 

This.

Stroud's performance vs. Georgia was impressive and likely the best of his career, but anybody that put in time watching the rest of his games know that that was not who he has been. He's always been talked up as somebody that's incredibly clean and efficient with a clean pocket and talented weapons, which is true but when he has to move off platform his accuracy and decision-making crater. That's one of the things that makes Mahomes the best currently: his ability to deliver the ball from different angles while on the move.

Having said that, the scouting community has a saying: if he can do it once, he can do it. If the coaching staff can get him to that Georgia game level on a consistent basis, then he's got to be on the big board.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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5 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

You can't just assume every project will be Josh Allen imo people love to use exceptional cases and treat them like they're the norm 

No, you can't. You just have to evaluate them and make a call. If we draft AR I'll be thrilled because that means we think that we can develop him into one of the best QBs in the NFL. If we don't draft him I won't bitch and moan because that'll mean that we don't.

I'm good either way. I just desperately want a young QB to be excited about again. Hell, I'm terrified of Levis but if he turns out to be the guy, fine. Let's go.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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11 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Stroud didn’t look like “Stroud vs Georgia” for most of his career either.  Was that a bit of an anomaly or a glimpse of what you can expect in the future? 

Look I get it, but one just had a better overall college career. Sure, he had better weapons and badically a year's worth more opportunity, but just trying to judge the traits, there's an argument that Stroud may be the better pro.

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Icege Grand Master

Icege

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6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're not drafting a player based on what he did in college. You're drafting him based on what you think you can develop him into in the NFL. Josh Allen threw for 1800 yards at a 56% clip in his final college season. The Bills certainly don't regret that risk even though I thought they were probably fuging up hugely at the time.

College production absolutely matters when it comes to scouting a prospect. If you've got a guy with all of the tools that was never able to get the results, then that's a possible red flag that requires more digging by the scouting department. Was he limited due to the system? Was he coached to do things a particular way? etc.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Look I get it, but one just had a better overall college career. Sure, he had better weapons and badically a year's worth more opportunity, but just trying to judge the traits, there's an argument that Stroud may be the better pro.

I think Stroud will be a better pro. I think when you judge a ceiling though you have to acknowledge that Stroud will never have the arm strength or the running speed that Richardson has. It can’t be taught to that level. So Richardson has a higher ceiling. But his floor is much lower, too. 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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14 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I watched an interview he had with Steve Marucci on nfl network that impressed me a lot. It was a coaches session kind of thing where he throws a complicated play at him he draws up on a white board.  It's a complicated old west coast play SF used that he goes over rather quickly and then erases it. 

He then sits down and changes the conversation for a while and stops to ask him to go to the board and draw up the play he went over with him a few minutes ago. Richardson gets up, starts drawing it up perfectly and describes the reads and the progressions exactly the way Mooch explained it to him in like 10 seconds. He nails it. I was very impressed. 

Yeah I think his football IQ is very underrated. His post game interviews usually consist of going over things he needs to work on and correct and owning his issues. He also has been working on his footwork this offseason from what I’ve read.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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8 minutes ago, Icege said:

College production absolutely matters when it comes to scouting a prospect. If you've got a guy with all of the tools that was never able to get the results, then that's a possible red flag that requires more digging by the scouting department. Was he limited due to the system? Was he coached to do things a particular way? etc.

It doesn't matter nearly as much as fans think it does. People are drooling over Nolan Smith right now and he had 12.5 sacks in his entire college career and never had over 4.5 in a single season. It's not what you've done, it's what they think you'll do in the future.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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Just now, top dawg said:

Look I get it, but one just had a better overall college career. Sure, he had better weapons and badically a year's worth more opportunity, but just trying to judge the traits, there's an argument that Stroud may be the better pro.

The only thing the worries me about Stroud is the ability to transition based in how there developed at OSU. I know no one wants to hear this but OSU is notorious for running and teaching a specific system that doesn't help the guys transition into the nfl and become successful.  I heard that mentioned yesterday on  that network. I wish I could remember who it was that said it now. But it is a real issue that goes unmentioned outside of the scouting world. 

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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A lot--if not all of you-- are wondering, "What does MHS think?"  Ponder no more.  Some of this is fair, and some of it is not fair, but bias is what it is.

Bryce Young:  Little, smart, and probably at his ceiling.  A good college QB, but will he transition?  His teams were usually better than the opponents-how will he fare when playing from behind?  I think he will be good--maybe a game manager--but I do not see the reason for defenses to fear him.  He will be a Colt or a Texan, in my opinion, and they are not good. As with a lot of Bama QBs, we see 1 dimension of them in college--the better WRs, better OL, the better defenses--playing from ahead---(same with Ohio St)---we don't see the QB with lesser WRs, a bad OL, and a defense that limits opportunities and makes you play catch up.

CJ Stroud:  Good size, nice accuracy when in a clean pocket.  Has had nothing but the best WRs in college football, a solid OL.  The best NFL QB in NFL history to play for Ohio State was not the starter so he transferred to LSU.  The rest have fizzled out in the NFL--that scares me, and it is not fair to Stroud--he is my favorite.

Will Levis:  His OL struggled and he had some injuries.  He has a rocket arm, but I have not seen enough from him to understand how he is a top 10 QB.  I hope that he amazes the scouts at the Combine today so he moves up and a team like the Raiders grabs him.  I see bust all over him--the Jeff George of our day.

Anthony Richardson:  As a starter in college, he basically has 1 season under his belt.  His accuracy and stats were not good, but he did not have a strong supporting cast.  Look at his final 7 or 8 games however (this from NFL Network) and you can see where the light was coming on for him.  He was something like 17 TDs vs 5 ints.  I think he reads defenses fairly well at this point.  Will he be there at 9?  The team that I fear grabbing him?  Seattle.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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11 minutes ago, Icege said:

This.

Stroud's performance vs. Georgia was impressive and likely the best of his career, but anybody that put in time watching the rest of his games know that that was not who he has been. He's always been talked up as somebody that's incredibly clean and efficient with a clean pocket and talented weapons, which is true but when he has to move off platform his accuracy and decision-making crater. That's one of the things that makes Mahomes the best currently: his ability to deliver the ball from different angles while on the move.

Having said that, the scouting community has a saying: if he can do it once, he can do it. If the coaching staff can get him to that Georgia game level on a consistent basis, then he's got to be on the big board.

Stroud is much more consistent obviously, but if we are picking one game let’s compare Stroud/UGA to AR/Utah. People keep forgetting about how AR crushed a solid Utah team when they let him loose. 

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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8 minutes ago, Varking said:

I think Stroud will be a better pro. I think when you judge a ceiling though you have to acknowledge that Stroud will never have the arm strength or the running speed that Richardson has. It can’t be taught to that level. So Richardson has a higher ceiling. But his floor is much lower, too. 

I get it. But...I could also argue that AR may never have the pocket presence that Stroud has, and that's assuming that you can even teach pocket presence (which may be impossible). Moreover, can you really teach accuracy? You can teach a guy to have more consistent mechanics which may improve accuracy, sure, but will he revert to his old ways when the bullets start flying? So, as you know, it takes much more than a cannon for an arm or uber mobility to be a consistently successful QB in the league, especially for an extended amount of time.

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