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Saints Sign Derek Carr to 4 year deal.

TheWiz

By TheWiz,
in Carolina Panthers

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Seltzer Veteran

Seltzer

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Breer confirms...

 

This is insanity to manage a cap like this for a guy like Carr that has never even won a playoff game.  The Saints are structuring things like they signed Mahomes to a loaded roster ready to win a SB.

Seriously, they have to restructure everyone else possible over the next 2 years just and have Carr's salary artificially low the first 3 years just to make this work.

Then, in the 4th year of this deal (!!) when he may not even be on the roster, will be when the massive cap hits start.

I'm sorry, the Panthers have made plenty of bad contract/ salary cap management decisions, but nothing to this level.

No Saints fan in the world with a triple digit IQ could honestly look at this situation objectively long-term and think this is a good plan.  This is not salary cap wizardry.  This is doubling down on Sean Payton's bad decisions (which he bolted over) and making it even worse for the next coach.

Dennis Allen may have bought himself some job security over this b/c no coach in their right mind is going to want to clean up this debacle.

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WUnderhill Grand Master

WUnderhill

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2 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Not really. You always go into negotiations knowing where your limits are to start with. If you go past that, you fug yourself. You have to be willing to walk away. If you aren't, it's not negotiation, it's desperation. We've already seen what happens with that. Being the only suitor for Darnold with our starter being PJ Walker. 

I mean yeah you have your max but you try not to spend it if you don’t have to. Carr signing with Saints gives Bears leverage to play hard ball because the threat of losing suitors as time goes on lessens.

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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1 minute ago, WUnderhill said:

I mean yeah you have your max but you try not to spend it if you don’t have to. Carr signing with Saints gives Bears leverage to play hard ball because the threat of losing suitors as time goes on lessens.

I don't think the Bears want 9, I think they want 4. If they can get Houston to trade up to 1, then move from 2 to 4, they get picks they desperately need and still end up with 1 of the top 2 defensive players in the draft. They could very well be using our interest to get Houston and Indy seriously into the game. 

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WUnderhill Grand Master

WUnderhill

Posted
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3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I don't think the Bears want 9, I think they want 4. If they can get Houston to trade up to 1, then move from 2 to 4, they get picks they desperately need and still end up with 1 of the top 2 defensive players in the draft. They could very well be using our interest to get Houston and Indy seriously into the game. 

Ok you’re right nothing matters it’s all set in stone already and Bears GM mentioning Carr by name and talking about teams trying to get resolution on the trade because of the availability of him and other options means nothing

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Evil Hurney Mentor

Evil Hurney

Posted
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11 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I don't think the Bears want 9, I think they want 4. If they can get Houston to trade up to 1, then move from 2 to 4, they get picks they desperately need and still end up with 1 of the top 2 defensive players in the draft. They could very well be using our interest to get Houston and Indy seriously into the game. 

Bears lose leverage by trading with Houston 

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CPcavedweller Veteran

CPcavedweller

Posted
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16 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

I mean yeah you have your max but you try not to spend it if you don’t have to. Carr signing with Saints gives Bears leverage to play hard ball because the threat of losing suitors as time goes on lessens.

Wait, so lower demand equals a higher price? That is not how supply-demand work at all. The less suitors, the less expensive it becomes to trade up, period. They aren't going to hold onto it out of spite. 

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CPcavedweller

Posted
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33 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

This is insanity to manage a cap like this for a guy like Carr that has never even won a playoff game.  The Saints are structuring things like they signed Mahomes to a loaded roster ready to win a SB.

Seriously, they have to restructure everyone else possible over the next 2 years just and have Carr's salary artificially low the first 3 years just to make this work.

Then, in the 4th year of this deal (!!) when he may not even be on the roster, will be when the massive cap hits start.

I'm sorry, the Panthers have made plenty of bad contract/ salary cap management decisions, but nothing to this level.

No Saints fan in the world with a triple digit IQ could honestly look at this situation objectively long-term and think this is a good plan.  This is not salary cap wizardry.  This is doubling down on Sean Payton's bad decisions (which he bolted over) and making it even worse for the next coach.

Dennis Allen may have bought himself some job security over this b/c no coach in their right mind is going to want to clean up this debacle.

Carr is a 4 time Pro Bowler in 9 seasons. He was Top 10 with Jon Gruden. Then McDaniel's comes in and does what he did in Denver with Jay Cutler, absolutely nothing. 

So was Derek Carr the issue in Vegas or was it McDaniel's? Time will tell but I have a feeling that the Belicheck (sp?) only works if you're Bill. His primary assistants fail outside of New England because Bill is a much, much better NFL coach than any one is willing to give him credit for, despite SEVEN SUPER BOWL RINGS. He and Tom and symbiotic. It wasn't one or the other, it was both. Then you add Bill, Josh, and Matt and you have another symbiotic relationship. They all three work well together but take one away and what do you get?

I wouldn't be selling Carr short here, especially with the offense that they run and the receivers that they have. He is probably better than Brees was in the last three years of his career and that will present an issue for us. 

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joemac Grand Master

joemac

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46 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

This is unprecedented in terms of a team kicking the salary cap can down the road. 

Even with all the restructuring/ maneuvering possible, the Saints are basically hemming themselves into a situation where the only players they will be able to afford over the next few years are basically to sign their draft picks (maybe) and league-minimum players.  

What happens if you are in a situation where you can't afford to get 53 players (I know only 51 count) under the salary cap?  Do you simply carry less players?  B/c that is a realistic issue if you look at their cap position over the next few years.  How does the NFL handle this from both a competitive and safety perspective?  I can definitely see the NFL changing the rules regarding how salaries are structured if/when the Saints get in that position.  

It will be interesting to see over the next few years how they even achieve cap compliance.  Regardless of what homer Saints fans want to believe, their cap guy hasn't found some magic formula that no one else knows about.

There has just never been a team willing to double down for so many years in a row, especially with a roster that certainly doesn't look capable of actually competing for a championship.

Yes, Carr certainly makes the Saints better for next season.  But beyond that, I can see no objective take on how this is a good thing for the Saints long-term.

Bottom line, if we get the right young QB, we will be in a much, much better position than the Saints for at least the next 5 years (or more) as they dig out of this unprecedented mess. 

And again, regardless of what Saints fans want to believe, their cap is in an absolute mess.  Continuing to kick the can is not smart or innovative.  The Falcons and now the Bucs are smart enough to take their medicine now to compete long term.

The only positive I can honestly see is that Carr does help their chances to win the NFC South this year.  Beyond that, I'll eat my words in in retrospect this doesn't look like yet another massive mistake, and one that will finally cripple the Saints for a while.

Seems we say this about the Saints every season, and every season they manage to get under the cap and sign the guys the want to anyways...

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Seltzer

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, thunderraiden said:

 

😄

This really says it all... Maybe Carr helps the Saints win a perhaps bad division again this year, but it doesn't even more the needle overall.

And even Sean Payton would be uncomfortable with this newest level of kicking the can going on... this would be dumb and short-sighted even for those prime Saints teams... this is sheer insanity for a team without a 1st ballot Hall of Famer like Brees

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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9 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Ok you’re right nothing matters it’s all set in stone already and Bears GM mentioning Carr by name and talking about teams trying to get resolution on the trade because of the availability of him and other options means nothing

I'm not saying anything is set in stone. I'm speculating, same as everyone else. 

 

4 minutes ago, Evil Hurney said:

Bears lose leverage by trading with Houston 

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on what teams are willing to give up. 

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    • tukafan21
      something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Then don't tune in. It's really not a hard concept to understand, if your making your decision based on your own personal needs/feelings as opposed to what is best for the future of the franchise, then it's a you problem, not a Panthers problem. When the season is already lost, every fan should be rooting for the same thing.  The team plays hard until the final whistle of the season and keeps improving as a team and individually, but in the end, we still come up short and lose games, and preferably because the other team beat us, not because we screwed up and found a way to lose due to our own fault. Look at it this way... If we are up 1 or 2 points with 3 seconds left in the game and the other team is lining up for a FG.  Beyond the joy of victory or the disappointment of defeat, what impact does the other team making or missing the FG have on our team the following season? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Except where we draft and what teams we play due to our finish in the division. The players and coaches on the team would have the exact same level of improvement and learnings about themselves individually and as a team whether the FG is made or missed.  The ONLY difference in the end is the record in the standings and if the win or loss number changes. If you want to argue if making the playoffs to lose in the first round or just missing them is better or worse, that's totally fair and I can at least understand the other side of it.  But in what is already a lost season, if you're not hoping your team plays well but ends up losing, then you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.  You're hoping for a moment of happiness at the detriment of the franchise's future, and in turn, you're basically then happy for a moment to only set yourself up for future further disappointment.
    • HaricotVert
      something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

      By HaricotVert · Posted

      If we’re eliminated I want the wins more.   The season is already a disappointment and if I’m not pulling for wins why bother to tune in?
    • tukafan21
      something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Two things terribly wrong with this post. First is that not one time has myself or anyone else agreeing with me said that the team themselves should think that way or try and lose for positioning.  Never once have I suggested the team should purposefully lose games, ever.  I honestly can't understand why people keep saying this in posts, not one fan has ever said the players should or would purposefully try to lose. And second, is yes, that has happened and it's happened very recently.  The 2020 Bengals were 4-11-1 and then were playing in the SB the very next season.   And while it might have been 2 years later and they didn't quite get to the SB, the 2021 Lions were 3-13-1 and then the 2023 Lions were up 24-7 at halftime of the NFC Championship game. The season between those two? They finished 9-8 and only just missed the playoffs. Which is why I keep trying to compare us to the Lions in where we are at in our re-build.  Throw out Bryce's rookie year with the Reich staff who just didn't work out and he looked god awful.   This past season when we were 5-12 in Canales' 1st season is that 2021 season for the Lions and their 1st season under Campbell.  This year is their 2022 where they grew a ton and Campbell's culture building was clear, where I'm saying we'd likely be better off in the long run if we go 8-9 or 9-8 and just miss out on the playoffs (which is still a significant improvement from last year).  Then our 2026 is their 2024 when we have a chance to be a real contender after adding a few more pieces and our key players having another year of experience under their belts.
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