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The Bridge Quarterback Debate

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

If Josh McCown wasn’t our QB coach I’d be a lot more concerned about this. Literally who could we have better than McCown for this job?

No, I'm sick of hearing people say this, it's clear you don't understand how professional sports work.  There is a massive difference between a coach and a teammate, even if the coach is a recently retired long time player.  

It's the reason Udonis Haslem has stuck around with the Heat for years after his playing ability has gone away instead of being moved into an actual coaching role.  

Yes, McCown will be a huge asset to whoever we draft, but you still need the solid vet presence behind him who is a teammate, and not a coach.  Coaches need to be able to be difficult on a player at times and then walk away, not be difficult on them and then be their friend, it doesn't work to have the coach be the good cop and bad cop at the same time.

It's not saying he can't be a good cop at times, but when he needs to lay into the rookie, and that 100% will be needed at times, you need to do it to the HOF greats at times too.  He can't then say, "okay, tough part over" and put his arm around him and lift him up.

That's why you need that vet presence behind him on the roster, to do that for him.  To take him aside and say this is how you go about being a professional QB, how you study, how you take care of your body, how you do X, Y, and Z.

Again, McCown can help at times with that, but his main job is to coach up the player, on the field, not off of it.

It's why coaches have their own offices and locker room, they don't spend much time in the actual players locker room outside of pre-game and half time.  You need that vet for the rookie to lean on in those times, to take him under his wing and help him become the best possible player he can become.

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nogoodbum Contributor

nogoodbum

Posted
Posted

Sorry but Mr Klein's points for a vet QB to back-up a rookie are rather weak. What to do in his daily routine? What to eat? When to go to bed? How to watch tape when he has been in QB rooms for at least 2 or more years watching tape as a college QB? Is it worth about 5 million for this?. Just bring in his mother or big sister if this is what you need, IMO. Corral or a UDFA can be coached into a capable back-up  when & if the need arrises.

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, nogoodbum said:

Sorry but Mr Klein's points for a vet QB to back-up a rookie are rather weak. What to do in his daily routine? What to eat? When to go to bed? How to watch tape when he has been in QB rooms for at least 2 or more years watching tape as a college QB? Is it worth about 5 million for this?. Just bring in his mother or big sister if this is what you need, IMO. Corral or a UDFA can be coached into a capable back-up  when & if the need arrises.

The Cardinals tried to put a film study requirement into Kyler's contract because he spends too much of his time playing video games.

The Jets let Wilson do whatever the hell he wants and it ruined his reputation in the locker room and have seemingly already screwed up their #2 pick in the draft.

And those are just 2 recent examples of top draft picks who can't seem to figure out how to go about their business in a professional manner.  

It seems obvious for grown adults who have had jobs for years about how these kids should be able to do it right, especially when they get paid what they do.  But you seem to forget that they're still 21 year old kids who just got paid tens of millions of dollars and are the face of multi-billion dollar organizations.

It's not something a few years in college prepares you for, even for the best of prospects.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, I'm sick of hearing people say this, it's clear you don't understand how professional sports work.  There is a massive difference between a coach and a teammate, even if the coach is a recently retired long time player.  

It's the reason Udonis Haslem has stuck around with the Heat for years after his playing ability has gone away instead of being moved into an actual coaching role.  

Yes, McCown will be a huge asset to whoever we draft, but you still need the solid vet presence behind him who is a teammate, and not a coach.  Coaches need to be able to be difficult on a player at times and then walk away, not be difficult on them and then be their friend, it doesn't work to have the coach be the good cop and bad cop at the same time.

It's not saying he can't be a good cop at times, but when he needs to lay into the rookie, and that 100% will be needed at times, you need to do it to the HOF greats at times too.  He can't then say, "okay, tough part over" and put his arm around him and lift him up.

That's why you need that vet presence behind him on the roster, to do that for him.  To take him aside and say this is how you go about being a professional QB, how you study, how you take care of your body, how you do X, Y, and Z.

Again, McCown can help at times with that, but his main job is to coach up the player, on the field, not off of it.

It's why coaches have their own offices and locker room, they don't spend much time in the actual players locker room outside of pre-game and half time.  You need that vet for the rookie to lean on in those times, to take him under his wing and help him become the best possible player he can become.

good stuff in here, the issue is cost. sometimes its not possible, but i do agree with a coach being totally difficult than a teammate. 

i think hoyer at or around 2mill could be another cheap option.....ive always wanted minshew and dont see that now....

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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Posted
Just now, Basbear said:

good stuff in here, the issue is cost. sometimes its not possible, but i do agree with a coach being totally difficult than a teammate. 

i think hoyer at or around 2mill could be another cheap option.....ive always wanted minshew and dont see that now....

No, Minshew is absolutely not the right guy for that role, he still thinks he can be a starter in this league, just look at how it went with him and Lawrence last year in Jacksonville.

You need a guy like Dalton or Two Gloves, who realizes his career is waning down and knows nobody is giving him a starting role right now outside of injury.  You need "a pro's pro" in that position, someone the rookie will come in and from day 1 have respect for him and what he's done in his career and be a sponge to soak up everything the has to say.

Dalton, Two Gloves, Brissett are the top 3 guys I want in this role.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, Minshew is absolutely not the right guy for that role, he still thinks he can be a starter in this league, just look at how it went with him and Lawrence last year in Jacksonville.

You need a guy like Dalton or Two Gloves, who realizes his career is waning down and knows nobody is giving him a starting role right now outside of injury.  You need "a pro's pro" in that position, someone the rookie will come in and from day 1 have respect for him and what he's done in his career and be a sponge to soak up everything the has to say.

Dalton, Two Gloves, Brissett are the top 3 guys I want in this role.

I think foles is a option too. Dont know his deal/contract tho...

I sorta think the backup does need to be able to win a game or two.....such a hard choice given the cost. A few upper level backups are going for 7-8 million, thats not possible with the current panthers cap.

hoyer i think would take around 2 million and be one hell of mentor...

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I think foles is a option too. Dont know his deal/contract tho...

I sorta think the backup does need to be able to win a game or two.....such a hard choice given the cost. A few upper level backups are going for 7-8 million, thats not possible with the current panthers cap.

hoyer i think would take around 2 million and be one hell of mentor...

I said it in another post the other day, but Foles is my guy right after them.  But as I said then, part of that is that I'm an Arizona alum and us signing Foles would put me over the moon.  

If we stay at #1 and then sign Foles to be his backup, I think I'd be the first person to ever be a fan of a team who just drafted a QB at #1 overall and then goes out and buys a custom authentic jersey of the newly signed backup QB, LOL.

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