Bijan vs Bryce

[WarHeel]

28 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I mean, surely as a Panthers fan you've witnessed countless running plays up the gut into a wall of linemen for zero yards.  "Both accelerating in a straight line directly at one another" is an incredibly hyperbolic interpretation of what I said lol.  Not to mention, running backs getting gang-tackled with a ton of bodies around them often leaves them open to one of these 300-lb linemen (both o-line and d-line) getting pushed directly into their knee or ankle while their foot is planted.

Your initial framing was pretty wacky...running backs running the complete opposite direction of linemen whereas the QB is getting tackled with zero momentum while their feet are planted in the ground?  If anything, the QB is the one running in the opposite direction of the linemen as they trade to elude the pass rush.  The way you framed it is really only particularly applicable for blindside hits where the QB has no idea the rusher is about to hit them (and what percentage of those account for a QB's total sacks taken, maybe 10%?).  Otherwise, the QB can generally see that they're about to get sacked and will brace for the hit.

Yes, but the lineman have to decelerate to make a play in most instances. I think you’re just looking to argue and that’s fine.

 

My main point is that comparing QB and RB positions in context of size is apples to oranges. They’re built completely different for different tasks. A RB may be hit more often but the types of hits a RB takes are complete different from that of a QB standing in the pocket. Especially if he’s unsuspecting of the hit.

[WarHeel]

2 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

You clearly have not gotten the memo that there is a "new normal" in physics. 

While we are asking questions, which would you rather do in planning:  A) Address a concern about your plan by spinning some numbers or correlating some conditions that don't correlate to dismiss the concern, B) deny it is a concern and use ad hominem arguments against the person who claims it is a concern, or C) acknowledge the concern and devise a plan and take some action(s) to mitigate it?

I am not bemoaning the selection of Bryce Young.  He's smart, reads defenses well, doesn't do stupid things with the ball, and is everything we have not seen under center in a long time.  But, I didn't like it when we didn't mitigate that same situation with 245-lb QB (unless telling him to run for his life, and if that doesn't work, just rub some dirt on it counts), so I'm certainly not going to like it if we don't make sure we are reducing those situations with a QB 50 lbs lighter.

The good news is the coaching staff that miserably failed the above quizzes now resides in the Nation's capitol, with a bunch of other people who can't pass a planning test, so there is hope. 

I don't even want to think how the coaching staff (using that term very loosely) would have answered either of our quizzes.

Our current staff has certainly done their part to ensure Bryce is successful and protected. I’m not bemoaning the pick either. Just thought the OP had a poor comparison. RB to QB is apples to oranges in every sense even if their height and weight are identical.

[Harbingers]

34 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Otherwise, the QB can generally see that they're about to get sacked and will brace for the hit.

You are not factoring in hits. The statistical hits and knockdowns. A QB’s main job outside of running the offense is throwing the ball. This is most often how QB’s receive wear and tear. When they are throwing they are locked into that throwing motion. Until that motion is achieved and often for seconds after they are vulnerable, often completely vulnerable. 

[rebelrouser]

Go back and watch Eli Manning play. QBs can control when they are hit.  

[carpanfan96]

18 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

OK I know at face value this is going to come off as super naiive and over simplistic but humor me. Official measurements:

Bijan Robinson: 5'11'' 215 lbs

Bryce Young: 5'10'' 204 lbs

Bijan is supposed to be a 3 down back and the most electric offensive skill player in the draft. He is literally going to be running into a wall of 330 lbs DTs 25 times per game, and when he passes them, will have massive LBs converging on him at 20 mph.

Now subtract 10lbs and 1 inch and suddenly a guy who might get a hand on him 6 times per game, protected by whistle-happy refs who throw flags if you breathe a little too hard on the QB, and he's going to snap like a twig? And keep in mind, he's going to have access to professional weight trainers and dieticians so the prospect of gaining 5-10 lbs of muscle isn't an unrealistic ask.

I get it, the NFL is a brutal sport and injuries are ubiquitous. But it doesn't make sense to me that a QB has to be 6'4, 230 lbs but a player like Devonta Smith who makes Bryce Young look like John Cena, can go 2 years into his career without missing a single game despite getting hit more times per game than a typical qb.

Except Bryce doesn't play at 204, he plays at 175-185. 

Some scouts say he played around 185 while others says he started the season at 185 and dipped below 180 for a good portion of the season. 

 

If he played at 204, wouldn't be as big of a deal. 

[carpanfan96]

58 minutes ago, t96 said:

lol this is absurd, he may be 185-190 but he's nowhere near as tiny as 169. He is bulkier than me and I'm about 6'1 190

He definitely got below 180 during the season by quite a few accounts and most scouts have his playing weight around 180-185. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

Except Bryce doesn't play at 204, he plays at 175-185. 

Some scouts say he played around 185 while others says he started the season at 185 and dipped below 180 for a good portion of the season. 

 

If he played at 204, wouldn't be as big of a deal. 

Why do you think at 21 years old his body is unable to add 15 pounds of muscle to get him to the 200 pound playing weight?  He didn't need to at Alabama, he will need to in the NFL and Fitt already said he has a diet plan to put on weight for him.

[WOW!!]

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

He definitely got below 180 during the season by quite a few accounts and most scouts have his playing weight around 180-185. 

I heard 190 more than any other number. 

[carpanfan96]

10 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I heard 190 more than any other number. 

Won't link them unless asked. I'm at work right now. 

 

Pete Prisco mock draft mentions being below 180 during the season. 

Pfn has an article about the rumors of his playing weight being under 180. 

Bleacher report has an article from during the draft process that says he's got a 185-190 frame and weighed 190 during some of the season. Saying he's got a 185-190 frame means that's the expected max weight he can hold healthy.  

 

There's a few others and a few videos that additionally talk about his weight. 

 

I see him playing at 195 in the NFL, ain't no way he played anywhere close to 200 at Alabama.  At the combine weigh in you could clearly tell he added a massive amount of weight. Which is why the rumors persisted even after the combine. 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, WarHeel said:

Yes, but the lineman have to decelerate to make a play in most instances. I think you’re just looking to argue and that’s fine.

 

My main point is that comparing QB and RB positions in context of size is apples to oranges. They’re built completely different for different tasks. A RB may be hit more often but the types of hits a RB takes are complete different from that of a QB standing in the pocket. Especially if he’s unsuspecting of the hit.

If by "looking to argue" you mean challenging something you said that I disagree with, then okay sure that's kind of the point of these boards unless you're seeking an echo chamber.  Were you looking to argue when you came in here to disagree with the OP?  I wouldn't say so, but that seems to be an admission by your own perspective.

Yeah trust me I've understood your simple point since the beginning.  I'm agreeing that they take different types of hits, I just disagree that a QB's hits are necessarily more dangerous than a RB's hits.  And certainly not to the level that overcomes the natural wear and tear that a RB accumulates, and not to the level that I can reconcile how it's the primary concern for Bryce Young but a complete afterthought (not even mentioned, actually) when it comes to Bijan Robinson...which was the entire point of the OP.

[Varking]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nobody believes that Bryce Young actually plays at 200+ pounds. I bet his actual playing weight is closer to 185.

This folks. His playing weight was 185. He added water weight for the combine weigh in and then didn’t reweigh at his pro day. Know why? Because by then he was under 200 pounds again. 
 

He’s not some kid who is wired to be the first guy in the gym and work out for hours like Cam was. If he was he’d be thicker. Alabama has world class facilities and weight trainers and nutritionists. Again, look at pictures of the two guys you are comparing. Bijan is shredded and has muscle on him. Bryce is not that. 
 

But then again, neither was Tua and Mac Jones was fat. At Alabama they don’t hit the weights or aren’t pushed to as a position group. 

[Varking]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

lol this is absurd, he may be 185-190 but he's nowhere near as tiny as 169. He is bulkier than me and I'm about 6'1 190

He played at 180-185 during college. 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Harbingers said:

You are not factoring in hits. The statistical hits and knockdowns. A QB’s main job outside of running the offense is throwing the ball. This is most often how QB’s receive wear and tear. When they are throwing they are locked into that throwing motion. Until that motion is achieved and often for seconds after they are vulnerable, often completely vulnerable. 

That's fair, but defenders aren't allowed to hit below the knees which is the primary concern when we're talking about a QB getting hit while their feet are planted.  Otherwise you're mainly talking about upper body injuries which are generally speaking, less common and less serious to my knowledge (I may be wrong).  The Brock Purdy injury in the playoffs comes to mind which is definitely a case of that and appears to be serious, but something like that probably has relatively little to do with a QB's weight/build.  Cam's a giant and he got hit in the shoulder which effectively ended his career as well.