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Deandre Hopkins is a FA

Seltzer

By Seltzer,
in Carolina Panthers

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Gerry Green Veteran

Gerry Green

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I agree with your first point. The second point I totally disagree. We don't need Hopkins to grow with Young. We need him and his production. That helps Young in the short term.

 

Frank already said we are trying to compete for a SB sooner or later. I don't get why people think we have a rebuilding roster. We signed Thielen who is 33. Hopkins age is overblown.

 

Nevermind. Sorry I even got involved. You've poo pooed every reasonable answer you have been given. You want Hopkins. We get it. You've made it abundantly clear. And yet it hasn't happened? Maybe because it's not going to happen. Sorry.

 

And yes, every person that doesn't agree with you strives for mediocrity. 

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

Nevermind. Sorry I even got involved. You've poo pooed every reasonable answer you have been given. You want Hopkins. We get it. You've made it abundantly clear. And yet it hasn't happened? Maybe because it's not going to happen. Sorry.

 

And yes, every person that doesn't agree with you strives for mediocrity. 

It's simple, he's been this way all offseason, he's unable to see the forest through the trees, he can only look at every player/transaction in a vacuum and not the cascading affect that move may have on the rest of the team, particularly past this one season.

Bryce is a rookie and we still have a lot of major holes, this isn't a legitimate SB contending year, it's a year to build for the future so we can hopefully contend for 10+ years with Bryce as our QB.

First, having Hopkins 100% hinders the ability to develop TMJ and Mingo, it's not even debatable.

Neither of them are beating out a healthy Chark this year for snaps outside, so 90%+ of the outside WR snaps/targets would go to Hopkins and Chark, with probably 150 targets to Hopkins.  Those aren't snaps that then give TMJ/Mingo single coverage like CamWhoaaCam likes to argue, because Hopkins isn't an extra player on the field, those are snaps TMJ/Mingo would then be on the sideline.  Thielen will be the main slot, and how often will we really be running 4 wide (which even then, one of those two still isn't on the field)?

The minimal boost for Bryce's development this year by having Hopkins is far outweighed by the significant boost in the development TMJ and Mingo would receive by getting the bulk of those 150 targets Hopkins would get.

It's not always about trying to put the best possible team on the field in 2023, it's about putting the best possible team on the field in 2023 while also building the best possible franchise for long term success, it's a balance of the two.

Beyond all of that it comes down to the cap...

First with that is that we still haven't signed Bryce or Mingo, that alone is about $8 million of the cap we have left, so we don't have as much as everyone thinks.

After that, we have MUCH more glaring needs for vets who can immediately contribute at CB and DE/OLB.  And while the names, particularly at CB, might not be out there right now, there will be cap casualties as camp gets going, and we need to keep some of the money we have left for those positions as the season approaches.  Then whatever we have left can be rolled over into next year when we'll have monster cap room to try and sign some young impact stars in FA.

If we wanted Hopkins, we would have needed to trade for him before we signed Chark, now that he's on board and we drafted Mingo, the Hopkins ship has sailed for 2023.  I still say that I'd LOVE to have him next year assume he makes it through 2023 healthy and still playing well, we'll have the cap and not Chark on the books to make it possible as that also should be the start of the prime SB window of years 2-4 of Bryce's rookie cap hits.

Edited by tukafan21
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TheMostInterestingMan Mentor

TheMostInterestingMan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gerry Green said:

 

Yeah, I'm good. I said my piece. Should have followed my own advice and stayed away though. 

The dude has an infatuation with the flashy WR position. Tried to tell me OBJ has been a good teammate and hasn’t caused his teams any issues since his Giants days and we should sign him. This was after the Browns suspended him from attending practice of course lol. There’s a group of guys that think nothing is more important than the WR position. This is because it’s a sexy and exciting position. You can put him in that bracket. 

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Eric4280 Mentor

Eric4280

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You can argue Bryce Young is better than both Mac Jones and Ryan Tannehill.

 

Hopkins is a realistic target, but like I said we must be seeing some good things from our WR's this offseason for us to not have shown interest in Hopkins.

I’m just gonna say he is. No arguing. These mids and has been mids don’t nearly compare to our guy.

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So I can't have an opinion unless I agree with you?

 

I guess I should shut up and fit in...

 

 

You're allowed to have an opinion, but just have some sound logical reasons behind it and don't dismiss the people who point out the significant flaws in making the moves you want to make.

You can want a player for the reasons of wanting to have that player, that's totally fair, and I agree with you there, I'd love to have Hopkins on the Panthers.  But that's where my interest in Hopkins stops, because once I put even the slightest critical thinking behind the implications of signing him, it because painfully clear that it's not in the best long term interests of the Panthers to do so.

When you ignore everything else that goes along with getting that player, you come across as someone who is very uneducated in regards to how the sport of football and the NFL works.  You sound like someone who thinks Madden is how real football works, it's just not.

And as I've pointed out numerous times, the reason for it has nothing to do with Hopkins, but more with Chark on the squad and the subsequent trickle down effects unto the development of TMJ and Mingo, and it's why I was very lukewarm on his signing from the star.  

As I felt like at some point we'd have been able to find a better #1 option, and if we didn't have him signed and taking up $6 million of the cap this year, then I think we'd have been the leader for Hopkin's services and I'd be 100% all about it.

Edited by tukafan21
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Ricky Prickles Grand Master

Ricky Prickles

Posted
Posted
On 6/9/2023 at 5:17 PM, tukafan21 said:

It's simple, he's been this way all offseason, he's unable to see the forest through the trees, he can only look at every player/transaction in a vacuum and not the cascading affect that move may have on the rest of the team, particularly past this one season.

Bryce is a rookie and we still have a lot of major holes, this isn't a legitimate SB contending year, it's a year to build for the future so we can hopefully contend for 10+ years with Bryce as our QB.

First, having Hopkins 100% hinders the ability to develop TMJ and Mingo, it's not even debatable.

Neither of them are beating out a healthy Chark this year for snaps outside, so 90%+ of the outside WR snaps/targets would go to Hopkins and Chark, with probably 150 targets to Hopkins.  Those aren't snaps that then give TMJ/Mingo single coverage like CamWhoaaCam likes to argue, because Hopkins isn't an extra player on the field, those are snaps TMJ/Mingo would then be on the sideline.  Thielen will be the main slot, and how often will we really be running 4 wide (which even then, one of those two still isn't on the field)?

The minimal boost for Bryce's development this year by having Hopkins is far outweighed by the significant boost in the development TMJ and Mingo would receive by getting the bulk of those 150 targets Hopkins would get.

It's not always about trying to put the best possible team on the field in 2023, it's about putting the best possible team on the field in 2023 while also building the best possible franchise for long term success, it's a balance of the two.

Beyond all of that it comes down to the cap...

First with that is that we still haven't signed Bryce or Mingo, that alone is about $8 million of the cap we have left, so we don't have as much as everyone thinks.

After that, we have MUCH more glaring needs for vets who can immediately contribute at CB and DE/OLB.  And while the names, particularly at CB, might not be out there right now, there will be cap casualties as camp gets going, and we need to keep some of the money we have left for those positions as the season approaches.  Then whatever we have left can be rolled over into next year when we'll have monster cap room to try and sign some young impact stars in FA.

If we wanted Hopkins, we would have needed to trade for him before we signed Chark, now that he's on board and we drafted Mingo, the Hopkins ship has sailed for 2023.  I still say that I'd LOVE to have him next year assume he makes it through 2023 healthy and still playing well, we'll have the cap and not Chark on the books to make it possible as that also should be the start of the prime SB window of years 2-4 of Bryce's rookie cap hits.

Now this person has a fully functional brain and can actually think long term further than "I want Hopkins now". What ive been thinking all along. He would just wreck the development of our young guys and take away their targets all for some high cap space. 

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