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REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

TheSpecialJuan

By TheSpecialJuan,
in Carolina Panthers

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KSpan Grand Master

KSpan

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

After declining that windfall last year such a scenario would just be... hilarious. Sad, but hilarious.

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If that happens then fitt needs to find one as well

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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21 minutes ago, Leaky_Faucet said:

Conversations last night stopped at GTD money again. Closer but still not there. 

Have been told if Burns holds out Sunday it is highly likely he will be found a new home.

I mean, GTD is what the whole thing is and really has always been about. 

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KSpan Grand Master

KSpan

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2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Unproven picks are not a guarantee.

 

One of them will be used on a edge rusher to replace Burns.

 

So where are the weapons for Bryce coming from?

Having 2 other high draft picks, assuming 1 is used on a rusher as you say, and an extra $30MM in cap prompts the question of where weapons for the offense are coming from? Seems obvious. The better question is where they are going to come from now if that cap room is gone and with no high draft picks.

Hell, even trading Burns to Chicago instead of DJ and maybe keeping one of those 1st and/or 2nd rounders would have made more sense then the timeline we're currently travelling. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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Just now, KSpan said:

Having 2 other high draft picks, assuming 1 is used on a rusher as you say, and an extra $30MM in cap prompts the question of where weapons for the offense are coming from? Seems obvious. The better question is where they are going to come from now if that cap room is gone and with no high draft picks.

Hell, even trading Burns to Chicago instead of DJ and maybe keeping one of those 1st and/or 2nd rounders would have made more sense then the timeline we're currently travelling. 

Its been explained to him over and over and over but he is just doesnt seem to understand the concept

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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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47 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Some of you may be familiar with the book by Jim Collins entitled Good to Great. While his conclusions are not always consistent (Cherry picked), he makes a point that underlies his primary theme:

Good is the enemy of Great because most people are satisfied with being good.  There is less motivation to take that next step because you reached a status of being good at your job.

In the NFL, the line between good and great is blurry.  So much depends on your scheme, quality of teammates, random opportunity, etc.  The difference between 10 sacks and 15 sacks, if you think about it, is 5 plays over the course of about 450 passing opportunities for each player.   Some are awarded sacks when the defensive backs cover up the QBs options and the clock runs out, forcing him into the grasp of an otherwise stonewalled edge rusher.  Other times middle pressure forces the QB to hold the ball etc etc. 

The better gauge of an edge rusher's worth might be to see how his presence impacts the offense--do they keep a RB or TE in to chip him?  How many pressures does he get?  Etc.  I dunno.  So I understand why this is problematic.  Burns averages 9.5 sacks for his 4-year career.  However,over the last 3 seasons, he has averaged about 33 solo tackles and 21 QB hits.  He has averaged about 9.5 tackles for loss over the same period.  His DB play has been erratic at best--so how does that stack up vs. Bosa?  The biggest difference (he was injured his second year, so I am looking at his top 3 seasons) is in the area of QB hits--Bosa averaged about 33 hits per season, 12 more than Burns.  Bosa averaged 38 solo tackles per season, compared to Burns 33.  And in Bosa's top 3 seasons (rookie, 3 and 4) he averaged 14.33 sacks per season, vs. Burns' 9.5.

In my estimation, Burns is good, Bosa is great. We shall see how much difference their paychecks reflect

Bosa is great, no doubt about it. He’s also playing on a stacked line and defense. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a superior player, but Burns stats would most likely look different on the 49ers defense. So just one more factor to include when comparing the two.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

When Burns signs his new deal we can celebrate together.

 

We have a homegrown star DE. I think we should keep him. We traded enough star talent already. Now you got people on tv saying they can't name a player on our roster because we traded them all. You need stars on your roster.

Brians Burns is from Florida.  He played his college ball in Florida.  He isn't homegrown. He had little choice but to come to Carolina.  It's business.   

Never get attached to players.  They aren't attached to us. 

you need offensive stars on your roster in the modern day NFL.   You can win without defensive stars.  Easier with them.  But it's an offensive league.  A passing league.   And pass rushers are important but even really good defensive lineman will tell you.....when a great QB is on he can make the DL talent largely irrelevant. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Burns is still on the roster. I will be a fan until he is traded.

 

You can continue to talk about why we should trade him for picks. Im focused on Sunday and watching Burns get his first 3 sack game of his career.

 

Go Panthers!

I'm a Burns fan. 

I'm not a fan of our GM doing dumb stuff.  Hopefully Fitt gets him signed to a reasonable deal.  And if he doesn't?  I won't have an issue with Burns.  I'll have an issue with the front office. 

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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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15 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

 

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

Agree on the Burns thing. As you turned down the trade (I’m kind of ok with that) there should have been a plan in place to sign Burns long term. Being 2 days away from kickoff and it still being unresolved is unacceptable.

However, losing faith in your GM for a trade up in the third round is wild. 
 

 

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    • SmokinwithWilly
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      By SmokinwithWilly · Posted

      So he became GM and decided not to address the weakness in the QB room following one of the worst rookie QB performances in NFL history?  There were options last season other than signing Dalton to a 2 year deal. Brissett and Jones by a wide margin, both of whom outplayed Bryce, Wilson, Winston, hell even Rivers off the couch was more exciting at the QB position. The time to address the failure in the QB room was last year but instead people on the Huddle cheered when we brought Dalton back then cheered when we were able to get anything for him after they finally realized he was washed up like a few of had been saying all along and got poo'd for even mentioning.  This year, the options were more limited obviously, especially since we lost Icky. It changed the dynamic of our draft. I think we were stuck this year keeping Bryce, but i still think giving him a 5th year option for what has amounted to replacement worthy performance was the wrong move. Why guarantee 25m if you're planning to replace him? You think he's going to want to be a bridge QB? Hell no. He's going to want out and we'll end up cutting him if he has another lackluster season because no one is trading for him with that price tag.  Were there better options as far as production available. A couple. Were there guys available with more physical tools than Bryce, Pickett or Grier, you damn well better believe there were. I've been saying all along, you always keep looking for your 1b. Bryce has yet to prove he can be a starter. Keep looking for someone who may. Put competition in camp. Let the best QB lead the team. Stop settling for less than mediocre. 
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    • strato
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      By strato · Posted

      Reasonable. I mean I didn’t see a clear path to relief this season myself. As I have typed already, I think the QB FA class is more interesting next season and that draft is supposed to be stacked as well. There just weren’t many options this year.  When you have Tepper to contend with you have to tread lightly around this unless you are 100% certain and willIng to stake your job on it.   There were a couple of outings that helped Bryce a lot in terms of  thinking maybe he can do this, and if you are a supporter you are giving them a lot of weight. You are likely to think just get him some more help and he can do that every week. Which I think Tepper falls into that category.  And the playoffs, division champs, regardless of the way I see that, the supporters will also give that a lot of weight.    And the big one, the atmosphere In BOA for that WC game, Tepper had to be soiling himself over that. If you pulled Bryce out right now you had better be right and your new guy had better make the playoffs and look good doing it or you will be gone and your chance to build your old team back into respectability will be gone too.  So here we have Pickett on a one year deal, and Grier and King. I understand it.  
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