Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension


TheSpecialJuan
 Share

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

This is a completely irrelevant post to the discussion at hand though.

The question is whether Fitt put himself in a terrible place from a negotiation stand point or not, and there is literally no way of framing where things stand right now without that answer being a resounding yes.

Sure, maybe it works out, but he's the one who put himself behind the 8 ball on this particular negotiation.

How? By not trading him?  If Burns was waiting for Bosas deal then how could Fitterer have done any different when wanting to keep Burns

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

I get what guaranteed money does. I'm just saying that we have no clue what Burns is asking. So there is no reason for all the vitriol being thrown at Brian this week. It's premature, and uncalled for. 

Very little thrown at Burns.  Outside of just acknowledging he isn’t a Bosa/Mack level edge player and is more a pure pass rusher…..and people choosing to claim that is dissing Burns. 

almost all the talk is on Fitt and the Panther front office in reality for handling everything so poorly and having us here 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

How? By not trading him?  If Burns was waiting for Bosas deal then how could Fitterer have done any different when wanting to keep Burns

You talk to Burns before you turn that trade down….and if the Bosa deal was something he and his team were going to wait on you trade him.  Because he ain’t Bosa.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

It sounds like Burns doing everything you would want him to do and could ask of him.   
 

I still don’t think he plays unless ink is on paper.  But he doesn’t seem like the to abandon his leadership role just because business is business 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Guaranteed money is always the hang up in these contracts because it's the only number that really matters. 

He could sign a $750m 5 year contract with 0 guaranteed, shred his knee game 1 and get cut the next day with zero penalties. If he's got 100m guaranteed, he gets 100m no matter what. That's why that's always the sticking point. 

Again, no it's not, it's why I'm thinking at this point we just need to go out and use Tepper's very deep pockets to steal one of the better cap managers in the league, say from the Saints or Eagles.

Like I posted a little earlier, guaranteed money matters, but the "realistic guaranteed" money is what matters more, and that comes down to how the contract is structured.

Teams can structure these contracts with the guaranteed money, but in a way that there is no way for the team to get out of it before other portions of the contract become guaranteed.

For example....

Say a team signs someone to a 4 year, $100 million dollar contract with only $40 million guaranteed paid upon signing.....

It can be structured to where year 1 and 2 have the player's salary being the vet minimum while year 3 is a salary of say $40 million and then $20 million in year 4.  

The player can't be cut after year 1 as they'd then have paid the player the $40 million guaranteed money while then taking on a $30 million dead cap hit.  No team is cutting an elite player after 1 bad season when they'd then have to carry a $30+ million cap hit while doing so.

They then also worked the contract so that Year 3 with the big salary is guaranteed if the player is on the roster Day 1 of the league year following the first year of the contract.  At that time they then are able to re-structure the contract to convert that $40 million salary to a roster bonus.  If the player is performing as expected, it can be done in an extension that really pushes that cap down the road, if not, it can be done with voidable years to still push it down the road without actually extending the player.

In that example, they only got $40 million guaranteed, but in reality, it was actually an $80 million guarantee with how it was structured because everyone knew there was no way they'd be cut after one season and thus trigger the extra $40 in guaranteed money.

Edited by tukafan21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CRA said:

You talk to Burns before you turn that trade down….and if the Bosa deal was something he and his team were going to wait on you trade him.  Because he ain’t Bosa.
 

Ridiculous to just throw away home grown talent like that, its obvious that the team wants Burns here and they will pay him appropriately.  Whether you think he is worth it or not doesn't mean anything

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

I get what guaranteed money does. I'm just saying that we have no clue what Burns is asking. So there is no reason for all the vitriol being thrown at Brian this week. It's premature, and uncalled for. 

We're not upset at Burns. This is about contracts and value as a commodity, and like it or not, that's what he is. He wants to get his and that's fine. 

The thing most people are pissed about is how this was handled by the front office. By rejecting the trade, we said we valued him at higher than 2 1sts and a 2nd, then tried to pay him like a player we valued less than that. 

All of this was discussed at the time of the offer. And if we as fans know it, you know they did too. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

How? By not trading him?  If Burns was waiting for Bosas deal then how could Fitterer have done any different when wanting to keep Burns

You tell him, "we love you, we think you're going to be one of the best pass rushers in this league for a while.  But we're not waiting for you to use the reigning defensive player of the year's contract to use as leverage over us, as you're not there as a player yet.  This is what we're willing to offer you, if you think you're worth more because you think someone significantly more accomplished than you will get much more, then we have to trade you"

The agents and the players understand the business, he's not going to get upset at them telling him that because there isn't anyone in the world who knows the slightest bit about football who could look at what they've accomplished in their careers so far and deny those facts.

If he wants to turn down TJ Watt money while trying to get closer to Bosa money, then he's out of his mind and at that point we should be trading him.

$28-30 million a year should be more than enough to get it done for Burns and should be low enough to make us okay with it.  Guarantees can be figured out with smart contract structure, that we haven't been able to get that done yet is a reflection on the front office in my opinion, not Burns.

Edited by tukafan21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Again, no it's not, it's why I'm thinking at this point we just need to go out and use Tepper's very deep pockets to steal one of the better cap managers in the league, say from the Saints or Eagles.

Like I posted a little earlier, guaranteed money matters, but the "realistic guaranteed" money is what matters more, and that comes down to how the contract is structured.

Teams can structure these contracts with the guaranteed money, but in a way that there is no way for the team to get out of it before other portions of the contract become guaranteed.

For example....

Say a team signs someone to a 4 year, $100 million dollar contract with only $40 million guaranteed paid upon signing.....

It can be structured to where year 1 and 2 have the player's salary being the vet minimum while year 3 is a salary of say $40 million and then $20 million in year 4.  

The player can't be cut after year 1 as they'd then have paid the player the $40 million guaranteed money while then taking on a $30 million dead cap hit.  No team is cutting an elite player after 1 bad season when they'd then have to carry a $30+ million cap hit while doing so.

They then also worked the contract so that Year 3 with the big salary is guaranteed if the player is on the roster Day 1 of the league year following the first year of the contract.  At that time they then are able to re-structure the contract to convert that $40 million salary to a roster bonus.  If the player is performing as expected, it can be done in an extension that really pushes that cap down the road, if not, it can be done with voidable years to still push it down the road without actually extending the player.

In that example, they only got $40 million guaranteed, but in reality, it was actually an $80 million guarantee with how it was structured because everyone knew there was no way they'd be cut after one season and thus trigger the extra $40 in guaranteed money.

I get what you're saying but I was trying to simplify it because NFL contracts are such a complex thing. Guarantees are what matters however they're structured. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Ridiculous to just throw away home grown talent like that, it’s obvious that the team wants Burns here and they will pay him appropriately.  Whether you think he is worth it or not doesn't mean anything

He isn’t home grown talent.  It’s the NFL.

You don’t just pay guys whatever they demand because you drafted them.  What you pay matters in a cap driven league.  It’s dictates how much talent you end up being able to put on the field. 
 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
    • Won’t stop until people stop buying overpriced poo.
×
×
  • Create New...